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High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.
YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com
All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.
Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Spotlight in 10.4 (even 10.4.1) creates problems for video work
Basically, Spotlight insists on indexing a drive, stealing HUGE amounts of CPU cycles. I first noted this doing my QuickTime H.264 tests last week. FireWire drives do not recall if they were told to not be indexed if they are remounted. A Macintouch reader described it best:
Mac OS X 10.4.1:
Matt Schultz
Our chief engineer refers to Tiger's Spotlight application as 'Stoplight,' because, he says, '...it brings all work to a screeching halt.' As of 10.4.1, 'Stoplight' still cannot handle many multiple 1394 drives attached to a single 1394 bus. 'Stoplight' still cannot remember a privacy listing of any particular drive once it's been unmounted and remounted. It must re-index regardless of what the previous preferences were. Under Tiger, it appears that all Mac users are opted-in to this indexing system whether they like it or not. There is no other find function available. We connected a chain of 23 1394b external HDDs of various sizes (the smallest of which was 80GB) to a PowerMac Dual2.0 G5 running 10.4.1. A vast repository of video data resides on these drives; some files so large they span multiple drives (RAID). Chains of multiple drives such as these are typical in the video production, editing, and post/pro business. The 1394 spec supports up to 63 such devices on a single chain and since Apple provides only one 1394b port on these G5s, they really should expect such chains of external drives. Once the chain began mounting, 'Stoplight' vaulted into indexing action. At the 3 hour mark, we performed a cold power shutdown of the machine. It is important to note that the same chain, plugged into a PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5 running 10.3.9, was available for work within 16 seconds and plugged into a Dell Pentium 4 Win XP machine with a 1394b host adapter board, was available in 9 seconds. It is a profound flaw of 'Stoplight' that it cannot maintain privacy preferences once an external drive is unmounted. Additionally, the app's ability to handle massive sized and vast numbers of files spread out and across external sources in a data intensive environment is suspect at best. 10.4.1 did nothing to address these fundamental issues. It virtually makes FCP nearly impossible to use under Tiger conditions and has rendered the 1394 bus ineffective. We hope Apple addresses these usability problems in a 'Stoplight' update as quickly as possible, so we can get back to work."
Eek. This is a serious problem. You can manually tell each drive to not be indexed, but that's EACH TIME you mount them or reboot. That's no good. Long strings of FireWire (or USB 2.0, or SATA, or any other external drive) are pretty much expected in video work, and expected to have hundreds of GB if not a number of terabytes of storage on them.
THIS MUST BE FIXED, AND PRONTO, as it SERIOUSLY IMPEDES the ability to do real work under Tiger. A simple checkbox for "do not index external drives" would be a good place to start. When digitizing, you're creating huge files pretty quickly. Stoplight, excuse me, Spotlight could interfere with this process.
I wonder if this indexing on mount issue is holding up BlackMagic's FrameLink application, that mounts QuickTime files as volumes with DPX files as the frames? I could see indexing being a serious problem for that application.
This is the biggest dumb mistake I've seen so far in Tiger.
Mac OS X 10.4.1:
Matt Schultz
Our chief engineer refers to Tiger's Spotlight application as 'Stoplight,' because, he says, '...it brings all work to a screeching halt.' As of 10.4.1, 'Stoplight' still cannot handle many multiple 1394 drives attached to a single 1394 bus. 'Stoplight' still cannot remember a privacy listing of any particular drive once it's been unmounted and remounted. It must re-index regardless of what the previous preferences were. Under Tiger, it appears that all Mac users are opted-in to this indexing system whether they like it or not. There is no other find function available. We connected a chain of 23 1394b external HDDs of various sizes (the smallest of which was 80GB) to a PowerMac Dual2.0 G5 running 10.4.1. A vast repository of video data resides on these drives; some files so large they span multiple drives (RAID). Chains of multiple drives such as these are typical in the video production, editing, and post/pro business. The 1394 spec supports up to 63 such devices on a single chain and since Apple provides only one 1394b port on these G5s, they really should expect such chains of external drives. Once the chain began mounting, 'Stoplight' vaulted into indexing action. At the 3 hour mark, we performed a cold power shutdown of the machine. It is important to note that the same chain, plugged into a PowerMac Dual 2.0 G5 running 10.3.9, was available for work within 16 seconds and plugged into a Dell Pentium 4 Win XP machine with a 1394b host adapter board, was available in 9 seconds. It is a profound flaw of 'Stoplight' that it cannot maintain privacy preferences once an external drive is unmounted. Additionally, the app's ability to handle massive sized and vast numbers of files spread out and across external sources in a data intensive environment is suspect at best. 10.4.1 did nothing to address these fundamental issues. It virtually makes FCP nearly impossible to use under Tiger conditions and has rendered the 1394 bus ineffective. We hope Apple addresses these usability problems in a 'Stoplight' update as quickly as possible, so we can get back to work."
Eek. This is a serious problem. You can manually tell each drive to not be indexed, but that's EACH TIME you mount them or reboot. That's no good. Long strings of FireWire (or USB 2.0, or SATA, or any other external drive) are pretty much expected in video work, and expected to have hundreds of GB if not a number of terabytes of storage on them.
THIS MUST BE FIXED, AND PRONTO, as it SERIOUSLY IMPEDES the ability to do real work under Tiger. A simple checkbox for "do not index external drives" would be a good place to start. When digitizing, you're creating huge files pretty quickly. Stoplight, excuse me, Spotlight could interfere with this process.
I wonder if this indexing on mount issue is holding up BlackMagic's FrameLink application, that mounts QuickTime files as volumes with DPX files as the frames? I could see indexing being a serious problem for that application.
This is the biggest dumb mistake I've seen so far in Tiger.
Comments:
It is dumb that you have to do a CLI for each drive you don't want indexed. The index performance hit is not all that bad compared to indexing a drive in OS 9, but it's definitely an issue for real-time work
I feel like I should echo that Tiger is a VERY fresh 1.1 release and is the FIRST available OS with this sort of search scheme under the hood. It can't be perfect - marketing aside.
I'm not updating the machines I admin where I work because I expect things to get ironed out more in the next few months. Users want it, but we are running great now, and I want the transition to continue the same.
Unless you're doing a lot of testing (like Mike), I wouldn't update a mission-critical system to Tiger unless you've done your own hands-on testing with your configs and have a bootable Panther system backup. It's not worth the hassle if things don't work well with early releases of a new OS.
I'd also expect third-party GUIs for flagging indexable drives to become common (Coctail perhaps?).
I feel like I should echo that Tiger is a VERY fresh 1.1 release and is the FIRST available OS with this sort of search scheme under the hood. It can't be perfect - marketing aside.
I'm not updating the machines I admin where I work because I expect things to get ironed out more in the next few months. Users want it, but we are running great now, and I want the transition to continue the same.
Unless you're doing a lot of testing (like Mike), I wouldn't update a mission-critical system to Tiger unless you've done your own hands-on testing with your configs and have a bootable Panther system backup. It's not worth the hassle if things don't work well with early releases of a new OS.
I'd also expect third-party GUIs for flagging indexable drives to become common (Coctail perhaps?).
Has anyone tried adding the drives to the Privacy list in spotlight. I've found that this seems to work OK. Just go into the System Preferences drag the drive to the privacy tab and then it will not index it. This does cause problems for searching those drives.
My solution to this has been to leave the drive hooked up over lunch or overnight, remove it from the privacy list and let it index. Then I'm all set.
My solution to this has been to leave the drive hooked up over lunch or overnight, remove it from the privacy list and let it index. Then I'm all set.
Interesting. I've been working on a project with about 900 GB of media on two Firewire 800 drives, and since Saturday one of our two workstations has been using Tiger. I haven't seen any problems at all. I suspect that Spotlight didn't take very long to index the drives, since most of the content of the drives is (un-indexable) video data.
That being said, there should definitely be a "don't index external drives" preference, and the privacy list should work correctly, obviously. Still, I wouldn't say that this is an absolute showstopper bug since there are two workarounds:
(1) Leave your drives hooked up over lunch/over dinner/overnight and let Spotlight index them. This will use up space for the index, but it should stop the CPU churning when you plug in the drives later.
(2) Turn Spotlight off. You lose search functionality in the Finder, but you can use FCP.
That being said, there should definitely be a "don't index external drives" preference, and the privacy list should work correctly, obviously. Still, I wouldn't say that this is an absolute showstopper bug since there are two workarounds:
(1) Leave your drives hooked up over lunch/over dinner/overnight and let Spotlight index them. This will use up space for the index, but it should stop the CPU churning when you plug in the drives later.
(2) Turn Spotlight off. You lose search functionality in the Finder, but you can use FCP.
More info: some folks on Apple's support boards say that unmounting and remounting a drive takes it out of the Privacy list, while others are having no problem. It seems like the bug may be configuration dependent.
Meanwhile, the page at http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html seems to indicate that volume indexing can be disabled effectively at the command line. I'm working on my Panther workstation, though, so I can't try it out.
Meanwhile, the page at http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html seems to indicate that volume indexing can be disabled effectively at the command line. I'm working on my Panther workstation, though, so I can't try it out.
Something ain't right here. The privacy settings are stored at the root of the volume in a file called _exclusions.plist in the Spotlight metadata folder. This file is totally, 100% unaffected by unmounting and remounting, and is not in any way tied to one computer.
However, if you unplug a drive and then erase it, you'll be erasing the Spotlight settings, along with the metadata catalog and everything else. So yes, when you plug it back in, Spotlight will index it for you.
The solution there is that after erasing it, you should simply add it to the privacy list. That'll take care of it.
However, if you unplug a drive and then erase it, you'll be erasing the Spotlight settings, along with the metadata catalog and everything else. So yes, when you plug it back in, Spotlight will index it for you.
The solution there is that after erasing it, you should simply add it to the privacy list. That'll take care of it.
Good point, Jeff.
At least one person on this Apple Support thread ( http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@608.UjhOa1owWO8.0@.68afb5b5 ) about the issue is complaining that Spotlight doesn't remember his Privacy preferences when he wipes his partition, but that is in fact the expected behavior. I wonder how many of the other people complaining about the same thing.
At least one person on this Apple Support thread ( http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@608.UjhOa1owWO8.0@.68afb5b5 ) about the issue is complaining that Spotlight doesn't remember his Privacy preferences when he wipes his partition, but that is in fact the expected behavior. I wonder how many of the other people complaining about the same thing.
It's incorrect when the poster says that there is no other find function in Tiger, the regular finder is still there, intact, and can be evoked with apple-f.
As for the loss of privacy settings on a disconnected firewire drive, that is not the expected behavior, it should be keeping those settings... So it is an issue which will presumably be examined and fixed.
As for the loss of privacy settings on a disconnected firewire drive, that is not the expected behavior, it should be keeping those settings... So it is an issue which will presumably be examined and fixed.
Adding the drive you do not want Indexed to the Spotlight "Privacy" preference in the "System Preferences" remedies this matter. If you feel like you will want to search the external drive, then deselect this feature and do an index overnight.
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