HD For Indies

High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.

YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com

All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.

Wednesday, August 31, 2005

At last! A REAL HD monitor in the studio to compare to HDLink, AJA HDP, Dell 2405, and Apple 23"

OK, gang, I finally have some critical research to share -

As we prep, I have his 19" JVC studio HD monitor in my studio at the moment.

So I FINALLY have a "real" broadcast monitor to compare to the other offerings.

I set up a quickie interesting test yesterday to view the same HD signal in several different ways. I have a DeckLink HD Pro Dual Link card in my dual 2.5 GHz G5. When working in 4:2:2 mode (normal video), EACH of the two HD-SDI outputs both output an HD signal. So I can run two individual HD-SDI cables to two different HD-SDI sources. In this case, I'm running one to a BlackMagic HDLink plugged into an Apple 23" LCD display (1920x1200), and the other to an AJA HDP converter connected to my Dell 2405 24" 1920x1200 LCD panel. I can also see the footage onscreen on my computer.

And guess what, folks? They ALL look dramatically different. So which is right? The JVC CRT monitor is what is typically used to color correct footage, so that is our reference (even though I have yet to calibrate it, which I will shortly).

The HDLink/Apple setup is, by default, too bright. Dropping it to minimal brightness gets it closer, but not the same. The Apple is pinker than the CRT (I hear newer Apple 23's, even of the same aluminum frame vintage, are more yellow than pink after a manufacturing change).

The AJA/Dell combo is even brighter - I have yet to dial it in at all, so I'll justg say it is really, really bright for now.

The onscreen (computer) display is pretty bright in comparison as well.

The biggest difference I notice on the CRT is how much more rich and saturated the colors are as compared to the LCDs.

I have yet to plug the Dell LCD's analog inputs to compare, but I imagine I'll face similar issues there.

This is just a quick, uncalibrated, not too scientific look at it.

But in general, the LCDs are not a dead-on match for the CRT, ESPECIALLY using the default setups.

I'll see how close I can tune them to the CRT once the CRT gets calibrated.

But good stuff for comparison's sake.

-mike

Posted by: Mike Curtis / 8/31/2005 11:12:00 AM

Comments:

The Blackmagic HDLink have a utility to control the gamma curves and to adjust the monitor.
You can make profiles and save them, and use to monitor different projects (Film, TV HD broadcast ...)

# posted by

T.Rom : Wed Aug 31, 12:18:00 PM CST

Mike!

It would be awesomely amazing if after you do these tests, give us some kind of quickie lowdown on how to make the 2405 match the CRT as closely as you can.

Just a few tips/settings?

You are awesome.

# posted by

Anonymous : Wed Aug 31, 01:06:00 PM CST

Not a big surprise that the CRT has richer and more saturated color. It's the same in the SD world. Keep in mind though that (at least here in Europe) no consumer will ever see HD footage on a CRT monitor at home. They are not sold and won't be sold as LCD's and Plasma's take over this market by storm.

# posted by

Martijn Schroevers : Wed Aug 31, 01:29:00 PM CST

With the greatest respect to Omar, I would question if you would call the JVC 19" "a "real" broadcast monitor".

Looking at the specs on the web, it is a 4:3 tube (how many pixels are left to display a 1920x1080 image?) and has a list price of $2999.

If you are really wanting to spend time doing an objective comparison of all your display options, why not approach Sony to borrow a BVMD20F1U or larger? I'm sure given your exposure, they will be quite willing.

Thanks for all fine work on this site over the the years.

Richard

# posted by

Anonymous : Wed Aug 31, 02:17:00 PM CST

Further to the above, if you can get Sony to throw in the BKM-14L Auto setup probe, which is used for calibration, you will find that you can use the Sony as a color analyser to compare all the other setups against.

Richard

# posted by

Anonymous : Wed Aug 31, 04:03:00 PM CST

which model JVC 19" monitor are you using? i don't know how someone can say it is a "4:3 tube" and lists for 2999 if they don't know the model number. of course, maybe they only make one.??

# posted by

eric filios : Wed Aug 31, 06:20:00 PM CST

Thanks to all for the comments - if I can get Sony to pony up that would be great, but I don't know if I have that kind of pull - I don't have any good contacts at Sony. If anyone knows someone in press relations etc., I'd love their info. Email me at the address at top of site.

As for the JVC monitor, it is a DT-V1910CG - it doesn't say on the front, I had to find it on the manual.

-mike the blogger

# posted by

Mike Curtis : Wed Aug 31, 06:44:00 PM CST

...and as for the HDLink, yeah I know it'll do curves, but it's just 2D adjustments, not 3D. So I'll dial in what I can when I can, just have a lot to do in the meantime. Gotta start learning Final Touch HD some more.

-mike the blogger

# posted by

Mike Curtis : Wed Aug 31, 06:45:00 PM CST

eric said: "i don't know how someone can say it is a "4:3 tube" and lists for 2999 if they don't know the model number. of course, maybe they only make one.??"

Sorry Eric, I just did what I thought everyone else would do and go to the JVC website where there is only one prfessional HD 19" monitor.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/features.jsp?feature_id=01&tree=&itempath=&model_id=MDL101397

Richard

# posted by

Anonymous : Wed Aug 31, 07:38:00 PM CST

Some of the Apple 23" aluminum displays drift into a pink color over time. Take it to the Apple Store and they will send it off for repair without much fuss.

Andrew

# posted by

skychase : Wed Aug 31, 08:09:00 PM CST

The specs for that monitor (ala B&H) "Maximum Resolution 900 Lines." So while it will play HD, it's hard to justify it as a HD monitor for color correction. The Sony PVM-20L5/1 (and 14L5/1) come highly recommended, with the same limitations (800 lines resolution).

- Erik

# posted by

Erik Hansen : Wed Aug 31, 09:06:00 PM CST

Oh, also the 23" Aluminum Apple Displays are also inferior a design to the plastic versions. As per MArtin Euredjian of eCinema Systems. In fact, if you're looking to test displays, I'd check out his new DCM23 HD monitor. Lots of good reports coming out about it. daVinci used it at Siggraph this year.

# posted by

Erik Hansen : Wed Aug 31, 09:12:00 PM CST

Erik -

that Sony costs more by about $800 or $1000 - I'll read up and see if it's worth upgrading.

As for Martin's thing, while very nice, it costs something like $15K plus with all the right boxes and stuff. And then that is STILL an LCD with some of LCD's inherent limitations (even though he's pimped it out very nicely).

Based on my limited experience with it at NAB and a long talk with Martin, I think it's a very interesting product but not the be-all end-all...yet. Bang for the buck has to figure in there, too.

I'd love to have the DCM23, even suggested it, but budget does not allow at this point in time.

It's all very easy to say "You should be using this." but budgets aren't unlimited - just the control surfaces and disk array alone are nearly $30,000 US.

We'd love to have a SAN, a dedicated capture station, the Sony 24 CineAlta monitor, etc....perhaps in time if things go well enough to cost justify.

-mike

# posted by

Mike Curtis : Wed Aug 31, 09:47:00 PM CST

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005

At last! A REAL HD monitor in the studio to compare to HDLink, AJA HDP, Dell 2405, and Apple 23"