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High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.
YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com
All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.
Monday, August 08, 2005
More Thoughts on Possible Apple Video Playback Device
After thinking about it over the weekend, I think a more likely rollout schedule might be something like this (and this is all pure conjecture, I have zero inside info).
Mike's WAG on release timetable and features
summer/fall 2005: more downloadable videos from iTunes Store as Apple tests out compression, bandwidth, caching, etc.
sometime fall/winter (or Jannuary MacWorld?) Apple launches the iVideo Store (or whatever it's to be called)
no later than January MacWorld (be great to have it for Christmas) - Steve Jobs officially rolls out a standard definition version of this Airport streaming video doohickey. It has standard definition outputs only, including component video outputs. It uses a version of the FairPlay DRM. You might be able to burn a maximum of three discs of it ever using the DRM provided. Or perhaps you'd be able to play back the movies on probably three authorized devices (I'd like to see that be 5, but oh well) - such as laptop, desktop, and office. Or perhaps iPod Video, where the primary application isn't on little bitty screen but out of the device into a TV.
(after writing that, I think a January announcement to coincide with release of first Intel Macs is most likely)
-if, as I think likely, Apple might require an Intel based Mac with the Intel Trusted Platform stuff in it for iron clad DRM (digital rights management) for downloaded movie playback, that makes this whole scheme contingent on those shipping next year. And what are the systems that Apple is likely to convert first to Intel? Minis & iBooks - low cost, consumer oriented Macs.
-movies would be around 2 megabits/sec in the H.264 format, audio compressed as well with AAC or similar, and the download system requires broadband (this from stuff Robert Cringely was theorizing about). No problem to pull movies over faster than realtime on a lot of broadband installs. By the way, at 2 megabits, real world performance of first gen Airport (802.11b) would be sufficient - 4 to 5 megabits is the real world performance of those systems.
-Mac only to start, Windows version a few months later
6-12 months later, "due to popular demand" an HD version would be launched. Amid the fanfare, the HD output would only be high definition since Hollywood won't relent on the "analog hole" issue. Movies would be in 720p format at 24fps, and the hardware would handle stepping that up to the 720p60 broadcast standard via frame replication. Data rates in the 6-8 megabits/sec range would work fine. Perhaps Windows version announced at this time as well? While I'd love to see an HD version launched from the get-go, and see Apple cut off HD DVD and Blu Ray from the start, I don't think that likely. Sony would have to buy into this plan to make it all work, and Sony wants to sell Blu Ray players, and badly. Apple's plans would cut into that market, so I don't think HD would happen from the start. But I want it to....oooooooh so badly I want it to. Plus, teething issues, lack of HD sets in the market, bandwidth, scaling up the effort, etc. etc. etc..
Also, quietly amid the fanfare, the DRM would be tightened, as has been done with iTunes over the last few years. Getting the first version out with loose enough DRM to encourage folks in is the way they started, once it hits critical mass and goes mainstream, tighten it up, keeping the overall risk pool within the same size limits during all this time (lot of risk for small user base at first, smaller risk for larger user base later). Along those lines, perhaps the first versions will work without Intel Trusted Computing Platform stuff, but later versions will require it? Dunno, that'd piss off the consumers without it. I'm not sure how this gets worked out.
-people will grouse that the compression quality/datarate isn't as good as DVDs. They'll be right, but most folks will roll with it and not care - witness the iTunes Store's AAC 128 kilobit data rate, clearly inferior to CDs, but that doesn't slow folks down.
-if iPod Video rumors are true (and I'm thinking they're not, unless it's a regular iPod with the ability to play out video into a standard video device, aka TV), you'd be able to load movies onto this and cruise around with it.
Reasons I don't think the iPod Video rumors are true -
1.) those little hard drives in there? Last I heard they didn't have a huge rating for hours of use - they're designed for brief bursts of data transfer, not long sustained transfers - video usage would drastically shorten their lifespan (but this info may be out of date by now or for newer itty bitty hard drives)
2.) battery life - one of the things that made the first iPods possible was that they used a RAM buffer bigger than a song to briefly spin up the drive, load a song (or more) into RAM, then immediately spin down the drive to save power. Video is much much bigger than audio - this kind of caching wouldn't be possible, or the spinup requirements on the drive would be so frequent, that either way you'd need a LOT more battery to watch video
3.) And again, music is "backgroundable", video is not. You can listen to music and work, work out, drive your car, whatever. Video requires your eyes' exclusive use - you can work, run, drive, etc. and watch video. You pretty much have to be still and dedicate yourself to it. Vastly reduces the usefulness of a portable device if you have to hold still to use it. A portable shower would be handy while camping, but you're not going to use it on the go.
What I do think is likely is the gadget I've described:
-small device, not much bigger than a power brick, with analog and digital audio and video outputs
-uses 802.11g (Airport Extreme) to stream audio/video from a computer (Mac first, Windows later). Note that a Mac mini now would be fully adequate for the task
-uses Bluetooth to communicate with the Apple Media Remote (or whatever their rumored remote will be called)
-system REQUIRES 802.11g, but Bluetooth for the remote is optional. USB based Bluetooth add-ons would suddenly get popular if Apple didn't offer one
-a very generous RAM cache to handle streaming buffers for video - 10 seconds worth or more of compressed stuff
-will be able to play back not just bought & paid for movies, but also play back your own movies (if preconverted to H.264), as well as all your iTunes library.
-and watch and navigate your pictures & photo albums and slideshows as well. Set'em up on the computer, then play'em back on the gadget
-in all of this, it'll be recommended that you not be running other apps while movies are playing, and that you'll have to dedicate the wireless stuff to playback and not have concurrent internet connection (unless you have that on a different connection, such as Ethernet)
-probably won't be able to stream DV or HDV content. Both DV and HDV are 25 megabits, the theoretical max for 802.11g is 54 megabits, but real world performance is far, far less than that - 33 megabits max in a lab type setting with zero obstructions or radio interference, but in the real world around 22 megabits is typical. Since this could lead to frustrating customer experiences if the performance is on the edge, they might skip this, or have it as a buried option, or have a testing part to determine if your throughput is high enough, or something.
-video conversion on the fly for your own footage isn't likely - requires too much horsepower. Maybe for DV, unlikely for HDV. Then again, iSight can do H.264 in realtime, but it doesn't look that great. So maybe conversion on the fly, just wouldn't look as good as the high quality H.264 conversions (since those take so much more processing, not realtime).
-here's a thought - most DVDs are encoded in the 6-8 megabit range - I don't see why DVDs couldn't be played back "remotely" in this fashion from your computer, given a large enough RAM cache.
-the more formats it can decode (H.264, MPEG-2, DV), the more expensive the device would cost.
-some kind of encryption would need to be involved that could be decoded on the fly - Hollywood doesn't want DRM'd but unencrypted copies floating out there, too easy to copy stuff off that way.
-suddenly, you have a full fledged media system in your living room, with the best of both worlds - Apple long ago nailed it with the iPod when they figured out that you want to control and prepare your content with a good UI (computer, high res screen, keyboard & mouse), but play it back with a simple UI (iPod click wheel or now remote control).
Closing Thoughts
For all the Media PCs that have crappy user interfaces and complex loading procedures, this is where Apple shines. I recently read that Apple's motif goes something like this: take an idea that somebody else started with but has developed poorly (engineer built user interface), build your own, claim the technology as your own, and make it simple, clean, and easy to use (think iPods, iMovie, iDVD, etc.). This is really an area where Apple shines.
Combine this with Apple's positive experience dealing with the record labels, and they hopefully will be able to swing a similar deal with the movie studios, who are getting used to the fact that existing download services are overly complicated and limited (can't play back on living room TV), and they might be willing to play ball with Apple.
I really like this idea. Of all the companies out there, Apple seems to be in a good position to take advantage of all this. Of course, if Apple can't get the movie studios to buy into this, then this whole thing becomes a niche A/V geek product, not a massive consumer hit. Legal, paid for downloadable movie playback is critical to the success of this thing.
The guy who wrote Delicious Library (a GREAT app, BTW, go buy it to manage your DVD/game/book library) has been hired by Apple to work on user interface stuff - perhaps he'll be working on this product & affiliated software? I hope so.
There are all kinds of interesting twists and takes to this idea - if Hollywood is requiring a secured platform for movie downloads, then Apple could launch this product with the launch of the Intel based Macs.
For those who don't yet have an Intel based Mac, there'd be three options - either the movies would ONLY play on their one computer to the Apple home theater box, or movies would only play back on the one authorized computer, or if Hollywood insisted, movies wouldn't play back at all until they bought a supported system. For these folks, the Apple Home Theater box would work for their DVDs, home movies, iTunes, & photos, just not legally downloaded movies (driving them to bootleg downloads, but that's Hollywood's shortsightedness).
If Apple wants this to be REALLY mainstream, they'll need to make it compatible with Windows based systems. But if they did that, they could still hang a carrot out to Windows customers - sure you can play back music and downloaded movies with this thing, but if you want better support and integration for your photos, movies, and other stuff, you'll need a Mac. And if you want to organize/edit/etc., the iLife suite starts looking awfully nice, as would a Mac mini.
And after writing all this, to include all the features discussed, $400 and up launch price point for HD version doesn't seem unreasonable.
OK, that's enough for now - time to eat breakfast and go for a run and brainstorm on all this stuff some more.
-mike
Mike's WAG on release timetable and features
summer/fall 2005: more downloadable videos from iTunes Store as Apple tests out compression, bandwidth, caching, etc.
sometime fall/winter (or Jannuary MacWorld?) Apple launches the iVideo Store (or whatever it's to be called)
no later than January MacWorld (be great to have it for Christmas) - Steve Jobs officially rolls out a standard definition version of this Airport streaming video doohickey. It has standard definition outputs only, including component video outputs. It uses a version of the FairPlay DRM. You might be able to burn a maximum of three discs of it ever using the DRM provided. Or perhaps you'd be able to play back the movies on probably three authorized devices (I'd like to see that be 5, but oh well) - such as laptop, desktop, and office. Or perhaps iPod Video, where the primary application isn't on little bitty screen but out of the device into a TV.
(after writing that, I think a January announcement to coincide with release of first Intel Macs is most likely)
-if, as I think likely, Apple might require an Intel based Mac with the Intel Trusted Platform stuff in it for iron clad DRM (digital rights management) for downloaded movie playback, that makes this whole scheme contingent on those shipping next year. And what are the systems that Apple is likely to convert first to Intel? Minis & iBooks - low cost, consumer oriented Macs.
-movies would be around 2 megabits/sec in the H.264 format, audio compressed as well with AAC or similar, and the download system requires broadband (this from stuff Robert Cringely was theorizing about). No problem to pull movies over faster than realtime on a lot of broadband installs. By the way, at 2 megabits, real world performance of first gen Airport (802.11b) would be sufficient - 4 to 5 megabits is the real world performance of those systems.
-Mac only to start, Windows version a few months later
6-12 months later, "due to popular demand" an HD version would be launched. Amid the fanfare, the HD output would only be high definition since Hollywood won't relent on the "analog hole" issue. Movies would be in 720p format at 24fps, and the hardware would handle stepping that up to the 720p60 broadcast standard via frame replication. Data rates in the 6-8 megabits/sec range would work fine. Perhaps Windows version announced at this time as well? While I'd love to see an HD version launched from the get-go, and see Apple cut off HD DVD and Blu Ray from the start, I don't think that likely. Sony would have to buy into this plan to make it all work, and Sony wants to sell Blu Ray players, and badly. Apple's plans would cut into that market, so I don't think HD would happen from the start. But I want it to....oooooooh so badly I want it to. Plus, teething issues, lack of HD sets in the market, bandwidth, scaling up the effort, etc. etc. etc..
Also, quietly amid the fanfare, the DRM would be tightened, as has been done with iTunes over the last few years. Getting the first version out with loose enough DRM to encourage folks in is the way they started, once it hits critical mass and goes mainstream, tighten it up, keeping the overall risk pool within the same size limits during all this time (lot of risk for small user base at first, smaller risk for larger user base later). Along those lines, perhaps the first versions will work without Intel Trusted Computing Platform stuff, but later versions will require it? Dunno, that'd piss off the consumers without it. I'm not sure how this gets worked out.
-people will grouse that the compression quality/datarate isn't as good as DVDs. They'll be right, but most folks will roll with it and not care - witness the iTunes Store's AAC 128 kilobit data rate, clearly inferior to CDs, but that doesn't slow folks down.
-if iPod Video rumors are true (and I'm thinking they're not, unless it's a regular iPod with the ability to play out video into a standard video device, aka TV), you'd be able to load movies onto this and cruise around with it.
Reasons I don't think the iPod Video rumors are true -
1.) those little hard drives in there? Last I heard they didn't have a huge rating for hours of use - they're designed for brief bursts of data transfer, not long sustained transfers - video usage would drastically shorten their lifespan (but this info may be out of date by now or for newer itty bitty hard drives)
2.) battery life - one of the things that made the first iPods possible was that they used a RAM buffer bigger than a song to briefly spin up the drive, load a song (or more) into RAM, then immediately spin down the drive to save power. Video is much much bigger than audio - this kind of caching wouldn't be possible, or the spinup requirements on the drive would be so frequent, that either way you'd need a LOT more battery to watch video
3.) And again, music is "backgroundable", video is not. You can listen to music and work, work out, drive your car, whatever. Video requires your eyes' exclusive use - you can work, run, drive, etc. and watch video. You pretty much have to be still and dedicate yourself to it. Vastly reduces the usefulness of a portable device if you have to hold still to use it. A portable shower would be handy while camping, but you're not going to use it on the go.
What I do think is likely is the gadget I've described:
-small device, not much bigger than a power brick, with analog and digital audio and video outputs
-uses 802.11g (Airport Extreme) to stream audio/video from a computer (Mac first, Windows later). Note that a Mac mini now would be fully adequate for the task
-uses Bluetooth to communicate with the Apple Media Remote (or whatever their rumored remote will be called)
-system REQUIRES 802.11g, but Bluetooth for the remote is optional. USB based Bluetooth add-ons would suddenly get popular if Apple didn't offer one
-a very generous RAM cache to handle streaming buffers for video - 10 seconds worth or more of compressed stuff
-will be able to play back not just bought & paid for movies, but also play back your own movies (if preconverted to H.264), as well as all your iTunes library.
-and watch and navigate your pictures & photo albums and slideshows as well. Set'em up on the computer, then play'em back on the gadget
-in all of this, it'll be recommended that you not be running other apps while movies are playing, and that you'll have to dedicate the wireless stuff to playback and not have concurrent internet connection (unless you have that on a different connection, such as Ethernet)
-probably won't be able to stream DV or HDV content. Both DV and HDV are 25 megabits, the theoretical max for 802.11g is 54 megabits, but real world performance is far, far less than that - 33 megabits max in a lab type setting with zero obstructions or radio interference, but in the real world around 22 megabits is typical. Since this could lead to frustrating customer experiences if the performance is on the edge, they might skip this, or have it as a buried option, or have a testing part to determine if your throughput is high enough, or something.
-video conversion on the fly for your own footage isn't likely - requires too much horsepower. Maybe for DV, unlikely for HDV. Then again, iSight can do H.264 in realtime, but it doesn't look that great. So maybe conversion on the fly, just wouldn't look as good as the high quality H.264 conversions (since those take so much more processing, not realtime).
-here's a thought - most DVDs are encoded in the 6-8 megabit range - I don't see why DVDs couldn't be played back "remotely" in this fashion from your computer, given a large enough RAM cache.
-the more formats it can decode (H.264, MPEG-2, DV), the more expensive the device would cost.
-some kind of encryption would need to be involved that could be decoded on the fly - Hollywood doesn't want DRM'd but unencrypted copies floating out there, too easy to copy stuff off that way.
-suddenly, you have a full fledged media system in your living room, with the best of both worlds - Apple long ago nailed it with the iPod when they figured out that you want to control and prepare your content with a good UI (computer, high res screen, keyboard & mouse), but play it back with a simple UI (iPod click wheel or now remote control).
Closing Thoughts
For all the Media PCs that have crappy user interfaces and complex loading procedures, this is where Apple shines. I recently read that Apple's motif goes something like this: take an idea that somebody else started with but has developed poorly (engineer built user interface), build your own, claim the technology as your own, and make it simple, clean, and easy to use (think iPods, iMovie, iDVD, etc.). This is really an area where Apple shines.
Combine this with Apple's positive experience dealing with the record labels, and they hopefully will be able to swing a similar deal with the movie studios, who are getting used to the fact that existing download services are overly complicated and limited (can't play back on living room TV), and they might be willing to play ball with Apple.
I really like this idea. Of all the companies out there, Apple seems to be in a good position to take advantage of all this. Of course, if Apple can't get the movie studios to buy into this, then this whole thing becomes a niche A/V geek product, not a massive consumer hit. Legal, paid for downloadable movie playback is critical to the success of this thing.
The guy who wrote Delicious Library (a GREAT app, BTW, go buy it to manage your DVD/game/book library) has been hired by Apple to work on user interface stuff - perhaps he'll be working on this product & affiliated software? I hope so.
There are all kinds of interesting twists and takes to this idea - if Hollywood is requiring a secured platform for movie downloads, then Apple could launch this product with the launch of the Intel based Macs.
For those who don't yet have an Intel based Mac, there'd be three options - either the movies would ONLY play on their one computer to the Apple home theater box, or movies would only play back on the one authorized computer, or if Hollywood insisted, movies wouldn't play back at all until they bought a supported system. For these folks, the Apple Home Theater box would work for their DVDs, home movies, iTunes, & photos, just not legally downloaded movies (driving them to bootleg downloads, but that's Hollywood's shortsightedness).
If Apple wants this to be REALLY mainstream, they'll need to make it compatible with Windows based systems. But if they did that, they could still hang a carrot out to Windows customers - sure you can play back music and downloaded movies with this thing, but if you want better support and integration for your photos, movies, and other stuff, you'll need a Mac. And if you want to organize/edit/etc., the iLife suite starts looking awfully nice, as would a Mac mini.
And after writing all this, to include all the features discussed, $400 and up launch price point for HD version doesn't seem unreasonable.
OK, that's enough for now - time to eat breakfast and go for a run and brainstorm on all this stuff some more.
-mike
Comments:
Very interesting stuff. A few comments on The Gadget:
1. I see it as very unlikely that it will only support wireless and not have a wired connection like the current Airport Express. Adding a wired Ethernet connection is extremely cheap, doesn't take up a lot of space, and expands the market of who can use the device to everyone who doesn't have 802.11g installed yet. It also allows the device to function as an access point like the current Airport Express.
2. I also think the device will have a TiVo-like video UI so that it can be controlled completely onscreen. The one question I have is whether you will be able to navigate the video library and purchase videos directly from the device.
3. I've assumed that the iVideo service will more probably use a video rental/Netflix model, although it certainly could use an ownership model or a hybrid model. First, Jobs has said multiple times that people don't like to rent music, but they obviously do like to rent videos. Second, even in my heavily wired San Francisco neighborhood, I only get around 1 Mbit/s over DSL, which is almost certainly not enough to stream the videos, even in SD. It would be super frustrating for users to choose a movie and then have to wait a few hours before they could watch it. On a Netflix model, though, there is essentially no waiting. You set up a queue, and the computer starts downloading your first 5 movies. Once it does that, as soon as you finish watching a movie, the device asks if it can delete the movie. If you say yes, it starts downloading the next thing in your queue in the background. This way, you always have 4 or 5 films available. Also, on a rental/Netflix model, you won't run into as many problems with using up the user's hard drive, which would also be very frustrating.
1. I see it as very unlikely that it will only support wireless and not have a wired connection like the current Airport Express. Adding a wired Ethernet connection is extremely cheap, doesn't take up a lot of space, and expands the market of who can use the device to everyone who doesn't have 802.11g installed yet. It also allows the device to function as an access point like the current Airport Express.
2. I also think the device will have a TiVo-like video UI so that it can be controlled completely onscreen. The one question I have is whether you will be able to navigate the video library and purchase videos directly from the device.
3. I've assumed that the iVideo service will more probably use a video rental/Netflix model, although it certainly could use an ownership model or a hybrid model. First, Jobs has said multiple times that people don't like to rent music, but they obviously do like to rent videos. Second, even in my heavily wired San Francisco neighborhood, I only get around 1 Mbit/s over DSL, which is almost certainly not enough to stream the videos, even in SD. It would be super frustrating for users to choose a movie and then have to wait a few hours before they could watch it. On a Netflix model, though, there is essentially no waiting. You set up a queue, and the computer starts downloading your first 5 movies. Once it does that, as soon as you finish watching a movie, the device asks if it can delete the movie. If you say yes, it starts downloading the next thing in your queue in the background. This way, you always have 4 or 5 films available. Also, on a rental/Netflix model, you won't run into as many problems with using up the user's hard drive, which would also be very frustrating.
Sasha -
1.) I think you're right on target - wired would be preferable to wired, I've been so thinking of this thing in terms of solving the "in the next room" problem that I was focused on wireless.
2.) I think that's a very interesting question, and the balance to be struck is how much functionality to put in the streaming box vs relying on the host computer to do stuff. If the onscreen UI allows for browsing/buying, that'd require a lot more "smarts" in the streaming box as opposed to the computer itself back in the study. I'm guess v1 would require purchasing from computer, v2 or v3 might allow for onscreen purchases. It's a non-trivial challenge - if there's enough smarts in the box to get online an drive a UI etc., why not just have a freestanding box with hard drive, aka a computer?
3.) time limited rentals - absolutely viable and doable. iTunes has been a purchasing model, and I was thinking they'd go with that. Didn't mean to suggest live streaming was how it would work, just that you could get it over to you in near real time. With progressive downloads, you could start watching after a period of time. You're in a busy neighborhood - 1 mbit/sec is about 125 kilobytes/sec - enough for streaming iTunes AAC live but not for video. At my Dad's house, in outlying Austin, TX on the lake (lots of older folks that can afford lakefront), I got 550 KB/sec downloading something the other day - about 5 times faster.
Your Netflix download/frustrating wait issue is also right.
But it all depends on the consumer expectations - when buying songs from iTunes, do you expect for it to start playing the instant you say buy? When you buy/rent a movie, do you expect to see it the instant you pick up the disc on the shelf? 15 minutes until start might be acceptable for "I want it now", an hour would not.
We'll see, we'll see....but your download in background point - I think that'll be necessary/required, rental or not.
Either or both models could work.
I think Hollywood would be less comfortable with a rental model, though - more prone to DRM ripoffs, or at least more vulnerable to renting then keeping.
-mike
1.) I think you're right on target - wired would be preferable to wired, I've been so thinking of this thing in terms of solving the "in the next room" problem that I was focused on wireless.
2.) I think that's a very interesting question, and the balance to be struck is how much functionality to put in the streaming box vs relying on the host computer to do stuff. If the onscreen UI allows for browsing/buying, that'd require a lot more "smarts" in the streaming box as opposed to the computer itself back in the study. I'm guess v1 would require purchasing from computer, v2 or v3 might allow for onscreen purchases. It's a non-trivial challenge - if there's enough smarts in the box to get online an drive a UI etc., why not just have a freestanding box with hard drive, aka a computer?
3.) time limited rentals - absolutely viable and doable. iTunes has been a purchasing model, and I was thinking they'd go with that. Didn't mean to suggest live streaming was how it would work, just that you could get it over to you in near real time. With progressive downloads, you could start watching after a period of time. You're in a busy neighborhood - 1 mbit/sec is about 125 kilobytes/sec - enough for streaming iTunes AAC live but not for video. At my Dad's house, in outlying Austin, TX on the lake (lots of older folks that can afford lakefront), I got 550 KB/sec downloading something the other day - about 5 times faster.
Your Netflix download/frustrating wait issue is also right.
But it all depends on the consumer expectations - when buying songs from iTunes, do you expect for it to start playing the instant you say buy? When you buy/rent a movie, do you expect to see it the instant you pick up the disc on the shelf? 15 minutes until start might be acceptable for "I want it now", an hour would not.
We'll see, we'll see....but your download in background point - I think that'll be necessary/required, rental or not.
Either or both models could work.
I think Hollywood would be less comfortable with a rental model, though - more prone to DRM ripoffs, or at least more vulnerable to renting then keeping.
-mike
Mike,
Thanks for the comments; it's certainly a really interesting discussion.
2. Interesting points, and there have always been some folks who have thought that a computer in the living room is what you really want/need. The conventional wisdom so far has been that computers (at least as currently constructed) don't work well in the living room, consumers reject them, and only when you make them into something appliance-ish like a TiVo do they work well.
I suppose there is a continuum of possibilities for where the UI is created. On one extreme, there is the possibility is that it is completely created on the computer, encoded in h.264, and then gadget just acts as a dumb display device. I think this is unlikely, as this would involve the computer dynamically adding overlays to the video and re-encoding in h.264 in realtime. For example, when the user pauses the video, there will presumably some overlay that shows the video is paused. It would take a lot of processing power for the computer to do that in realtime and encode the resulting video in h.264. Also, there probably would be an unacceptable lagtime as the remote tells the Gadget to pause, the Gadget tells the computer to pause, and the computer generates the UI to give back to the Gadget.
The other extreme possibility is that the UI is completely created on the Gadget, and that the computer only sends across the raw h.264 encoded video. This would be more responsive and dependable (as it wouldn't depend on CPU cycles being available), but it would be more expensive to make. In this case the computer is essentially just acting like a network drive. As you note, this begs the question of whether or not the Gadget could have a hard drive and not require a separate computer at all. In essence, this would be just like a TiVo Series 2 recorder in a hardware sense.
My guess is something like the latter possibility without a hard drive; I think Apple wants to make the computer key to the experience and keep the cost of the Gadget down. They also surely want to make video playback on Power/iBooks possible for mobile folks.
3) Interesting that rural Austin has better times than the Mission; guess that's what population density (and everyone on the block using DSL) does. I still think Apple would be loath to allow the user to start playing videos before they finish (or are almost finished) downloading. TCP/IP networks are often undependable, you can't predict how they will behave, and users will turn very quickly if their movies stop mid-viewing. If I were Apple, I would only allow movies to playback if the network was working at least an order of magnitude more than the rate needed to download. Or maybe I'd put a big disclaimer up telling the user that their movie might stop if it's not all downloaded. This is one reason I think a subscription queue is key.
You may be right about Hollywood's fear of rentals, but the vast majority of folks want to rent movies, not own them (DVD collectors and Disney/Pixar/Barney/Teletubbies DVDs notwithstanding). And Hollywood has shown that they will accept unlimited rental models at Blockbuster and Netflix; it's not that big a step to allow a subscription model online. And once again, people just don't have the hard drive space right now to buy lots of 1.5 GB movies. They will in a few years, but they just don't right now.
As for permanent purchasing, I'm sure that will be possible, the way it is on Napster or Yahoo for a song you've downloaded as a rental.
Final thought about purchasing models: if Apple does use a subscription model, they could do something sneaky like: giving away a free Airport Express AV if you sign up for a full year of the subscription service. Or alternately, get a free year subscription if you buy the AE AV; whichever one sounds better to the consumer.
Thanks for the comments; it's certainly a really interesting discussion.
2. Interesting points, and there have always been some folks who have thought that a computer in the living room is what you really want/need. The conventional wisdom so far has been that computers (at least as currently constructed) don't work well in the living room, consumers reject them, and only when you make them into something appliance-ish like a TiVo do they work well.
I suppose there is a continuum of possibilities for where the UI is created. On one extreme, there is the possibility is that it is completely created on the computer, encoded in h.264, and then gadget just acts as a dumb display device. I think this is unlikely, as this would involve the computer dynamically adding overlays to the video and re-encoding in h.264 in realtime. For example, when the user pauses the video, there will presumably some overlay that shows the video is paused. It would take a lot of processing power for the computer to do that in realtime and encode the resulting video in h.264. Also, there probably would be an unacceptable lagtime as the remote tells the Gadget to pause, the Gadget tells the computer to pause, and the computer generates the UI to give back to the Gadget.
The other extreme possibility is that the UI is completely created on the Gadget, and that the computer only sends across the raw h.264 encoded video. This would be more responsive and dependable (as it wouldn't depend on CPU cycles being available), but it would be more expensive to make. In this case the computer is essentially just acting like a network drive. As you note, this begs the question of whether or not the Gadget could have a hard drive and not require a separate computer at all. In essence, this would be just like a TiVo Series 2 recorder in a hardware sense.
My guess is something like the latter possibility without a hard drive; I think Apple wants to make the computer key to the experience and keep the cost of the Gadget down. They also surely want to make video playback on Power/iBooks possible for mobile folks.
3) Interesting that rural Austin has better times than the Mission; guess that's what population density (and everyone on the block using DSL) does. I still think Apple would be loath to allow the user to start playing videos before they finish (or are almost finished) downloading. TCP/IP networks are often undependable, you can't predict how they will behave, and users will turn very quickly if their movies stop mid-viewing. If I were Apple, I would only allow movies to playback if the network was working at least an order of magnitude more than the rate needed to download. Or maybe I'd put a big disclaimer up telling the user that their movie might stop if it's not all downloaded. This is one reason I think a subscription queue is key.
You may be right about Hollywood's fear of rentals, but the vast majority of folks want to rent movies, not own them (DVD collectors and Disney/Pixar/Barney/Teletubbies DVDs notwithstanding). And Hollywood has shown that they will accept unlimited rental models at Blockbuster and Netflix; it's not that big a step to allow a subscription model online. And once again, people just don't have the hard drive space right now to buy lots of 1.5 GB movies. They will in a few years, but they just don't right now.
As for permanent purchasing, I'm sure that will be possible, the way it is on Napster or Yahoo for a song you've downloaded as a rental.
Final thought about purchasing models: if Apple does use a subscription model, they could do something sneaky like: giving away a free Airport Express AV if you sign up for a full year of the subscription service. Or alternately, get a free year subscription if you buy the AE AV; whichever one sounds better to the consumer.
Mike,
Thanks for the comments; it's certainly a really interesting discussion.
2. Interesting points, and there have always been some folks who have thought that a computer in the living room is what you really want/need. The conventional wisdom so far has been that computers (at least as currently constructed) don't work well in the living room, consumers reject them, and only when you make them into something appliance-ish like a TiVo do they work well.
I suppose there is a continuum of possibilities for where the UI is created. On one extreme, there is the possibility is that it is completely created on the computer, encoded in h.264, and then gadget just acts as a dumb display device. I think this is unlikely, as this would involve the computer dynamically adding overlays to the video and re-encoding in h.264 in realtime. For example, when the user pauses the video, there will presumably some overlay that shows the video is paused. It would take a lot of processing power for the computer to do that in realtime and encode the resulting video in h.264. Also, there probably would be an unacceptable lagtime as the remote tells the Gadget to pause, the Gadget tells the computer to pause, and the computer generates the UI to give back to the Gadget.
The other extreme possibility is that the UI is completely created on the Gadget, and that the computer only sends across the raw h.264 encoded video. This would be more responsive and dependable (as it wouldn't depend on CPU cycles being available), but it would be more expensive to make. In this case the computer is essentially just acting like a network drive. As you note, this begs the question of whether or not the Gadget could have a hard drive and not require a separate computer at all. In essence, this would be just like a TiVo Series 2 recorder in a hardware sense.
My guess is something like the latter possibility without a hard drive; I think Apple wants to make the computer key to the experience and keep the cost of the Gadget down. They also surely want to make video playback on Power/iBooks possible for mobile folks.
3) Interesting that rural Austin has better times than the Mission; guess that's what population density (and everyone on the block using DSL) does. I still think Apple would be loath to allow the user to start playing videos before they finish (or are almost finished) downloading. TCP/IP networks are often undependable, you can't predict how they will behave, and users will turn very quickly if their movies stop mid-viewing. If I were Apple, I would only allow movies to playback if the network was working at least an order of magnitude more than the rate needed to download. Or maybe I'd put a big disclaimer up telling the user that their movie might stop if it's not all downloaded. This is one reason I think a subscription queue is key.
You may be right about Hollywood's fear of rentals, but the vast majority of folks want to rent movies, not own them (DVD collectors and Disney/Pixar/Barney/Teletubbies DVDs notwithstanding). And Hollywood has shown that they will accept unlimited rental models at Blockbuster and Netflix; it's not that big a step to allow a subscription model online. And once again, people just don't have the hard drive space right now to buy lots of 1.5 GB movies. They will in a few years, but they just don't right now.
As for permanent purchasing, I'm sure that will be possible, the way it is on Napster or Yahoo for a song you've downloaded as a rental.
Final thought about purchasing models: if Apple does use a subscription model, they could do something sneaky like: giving away a free Airport Express AV if you sign up for a full year of the subscription service. Or alternately, get a free year subscription if you buy the AE AV; whichever one sounds better to the consumer.
Thanks for the comments; it's certainly a really interesting discussion.
2. Interesting points, and there have always been some folks who have thought that a computer in the living room is what you really want/need. The conventional wisdom so far has been that computers (at least as currently constructed) don't work well in the living room, consumers reject them, and only when you make them into something appliance-ish like a TiVo do they work well.
I suppose there is a continuum of possibilities for where the UI is created. On one extreme, there is the possibility is that it is completely created on the computer, encoded in h.264, and then gadget just acts as a dumb display device. I think this is unlikely, as this would involve the computer dynamically adding overlays to the video and re-encoding in h.264 in realtime. For example, when the user pauses the video, there will presumably some overlay that shows the video is paused. It would take a lot of processing power for the computer to do that in realtime and encode the resulting video in h.264. Also, there probably would be an unacceptable lagtime as the remote tells the Gadget to pause, the Gadget tells the computer to pause, and the computer generates the UI to give back to the Gadget.
The other extreme possibility is that the UI is completely created on the Gadget, and that the computer only sends across the raw h.264 encoded video. This would be more responsive and dependable (as it wouldn't depend on CPU cycles being available), but it would be more expensive to make. In this case the computer is essentially just acting like a network drive. As you note, this begs the question of whether or not the Gadget could have a hard drive and not require a separate computer at all. In essence, this would be just like a TiVo Series 2 recorder in a hardware sense.
My guess is something like the latter possibility without a hard drive; I think Apple wants to make the computer key to the experience and keep the cost of the Gadget down. They also surely want to make video playback on Power/iBooks possible for mobile folks.
3) Interesting that rural Austin has better times than the Mission; guess that's what population density (and everyone on the block using DSL) does. I still think Apple would be loath to allow the user to start playing videos before they finish (or are almost finished) downloading. TCP/IP networks are often undependable, you can't predict how they will behave, and users will turn very quickly if their movies stop mid-viewing. If I were Apple, I would only allow movies to playback if the network was working at least an order of magnitude more than the rate needed to download. Or maybe I'd put a big disclaimer up telling the user that their movie might stop if it's not all downloaded. This is one reason I think a subscription queue is key.
You may be right about Hollywood's fear of rentals, but the vast majority of folks want to rent movies, not own them (DVD collectors and Disney/Pixar/Barney/Teletubbies DVDs notwithstanding). And Hollywood has shown that they will accept unlimited rental models at Blockbuster and Netflix; it's not that big a step to allow a subscription model online. And once again, people just don't have the hard drive space right now to buy lots of 1.5 GB movies. They will in a few years, but they just don't right now.
As for permanent purchasing, I'm sure that will be possible, the way it is on Napster or Yahoo for a song you've downloaded as a rental.
Final thought about purchasing models: if Apple does use a subscription model, they could do something sneaky like: giving away a free Airport Express AV if you sign up for a full year of the subscription service. Or alternately, get a free year subscription if you buy the AE AV; whichever one sounds better to the consumer.
Sasha -
again, we're on the same page here for the most part.
Computer doing UI overlays in H.264 - too much work.
Gadget generating UI=likely scenario, then it's a cost/quality of UI tradeoff.
The original idea that sent me down this path was that it would be cool because it would:
-be cheaper than a new computer
-be cheaper than a high def disc player (HD DVD or Blu Ray, once available)
-keep the computer out of the living room, and exist solely as a simple connect-o-box streaming content wirelessly (or wired as you suggested as well).
-be simple, clean, and elegant as Apple does things.
The more features and capabilities (and UI and networking and decoding etc.) that you shove into it, the closer it becomes to saying bag it, just build that into an offshoot of or replacement for the mini.
Another reason to do this was that 720p24 footage will NOT play back reliably on a mini, it's too slow. But dedicated hardware would deliver clean content consistently. There are lots and Lots and LOTS of playback issues with home theater PCs, I just spent a month working with a client trying to get clean playback out of a computer based system, and it just doesn't want to do it.
-mike
again, we're on the same page here for the most part.
Computer doing UI overlays in H.264 - too much work.
Gadget generating UI=likely scenario, then it's a cost/quality of UI tradeoff.
The original idea that sent me down this path was that it would be cool because it would:
-be cheaper than a new computer
-be cheaper than a high def disc player (HD DVD or Blu Ray, once available)
-keep the computer out of the living room, and exist solely as a simple connect-o-box streaming content wirelessly (or wired as you suggested as well).
-be simple, clean, and elegant as Apple does things.
The more features and capabilities (and UI and networking and decoding etc.) that you shove into it, the closer it becomes to saying bag it, just build that into an offshoot of or replacement for the mini.
Another reason to do this was that 720p24 footage will NOT play back reliably on a mini, it's too slow. But dedicated hardware would deliver clean content consistently. There are lots and Lots and LOTS of playback issues with home theater PCs, I just spent a month working with a client trying to get clean playback out of a computer based system, and it just doesn't want to do it.
-mike
Couple comments:
1) Doesn't QuickTime already support on-the-fly bit-rate adjustments for streaming sources? I can't believe Apple would give up a chance to use this if they do wireless video.
2) Apple already has something similar to what you are describing in their "Airport Station with Airtunes", in which you can stream your iTunes library wirelessly to anywhere in your house. To me, this always seemed to be a dead-end product. Apple has never heavily advertised it, offered a remote control for it, or any other accessory (such as a display like the Roku device). I would not be the least bit surprised if Apple meant this as a technology demo for a video streaming device, which would make more sense to me than audio.
3) As a consumer, I would be most interested in a hybrid device. One that can access a large library of video that is stored on my computer, but take a small portion with me. Something similar with iTunes: you can have a million songs in iTunes but only take a few thousand with you on your iPod. A video device that could store 3-5 feature-length movies on it would work well for most of my travelling needs (e.g., take videos along to the relatives, movies for the kids, etc.).
1) Doesn't QuickTime already support on-the-fly bit-rate adjustments for streaming sources? I can't believe Apple would give up a chance to use this if they do wireless video.
2) Apple already has something similar to what you are describing in their "Airport Station with Airtunes", in which you can stream your iTunes library wirelessly to anywhere in your house. To me, this always seemed to be a dead-end product. Apple has never heavily advertised it, offered a remote control for it, or any other accessory (such as a display like the Roku device). I would not be the least bit surprised if Apple meant this as a technology demo for a video streaming device, which would make more sense to me than audio.
3) As a consumer, I would be most interested in a hybrid device. One that can access a large library of video that is stored on my computer, but take a small portion with me. Something similar with iTunes: you can have a million songs in iTunes but only take a few thousand with you on your iPod. A video device that could store 3-5 feature-length movies on it would work well for most of my travelling needs (e.g., take videos along to the relatives, movies for the kids, etc.).
Anonymous: here's some answers:
1.) on-the-fly bitrate adjustments - only sort of - as an author, you can encode multiple versions of your source material, and the connection speed preference on the user's machine sets which version it grabs. You can make a bunch of different source files or streams, but it's not quite on-the-fly as I understand it, unless there is something new I'm not aware of. Think of it this way - if there is just ONE user out there not able to handle the bitrate, what are you going to do - alter the source? Multiple source files at varying bitrates is the way to handle it. I suppose it would be possible to automatically bump down to a slower speed streaming source if your connection couldn't keep up, but I'm not aware of Apple implementing something like this. And if they did, it wouldn't apply in a streaming from computer to iWatch anyway.
2.) Airport with AirTunes - yeah - that's why I'm expanding this model to include more. Except now you'd have a remote, a screen, a UI, pictures, video, and movies. This takes that dead end and extends it. Maybe it was practice for this all along...
3.) take it with you - well, no reason you couldn't download a video onto an iPod and have it play back somewhere else, or possibly on it's own tiny screen (except for heavy power draw battery duration and hard drive lifespan issues)
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1.) on-the-fly bitrate adjustments - only sort of - as an author, you can encode multiple versions of your source material, and the connection speed preference on the user's machine sets which version it grabs. You can make a bunch of different source files or streams, but it's not quite on-the-fly as I understand it, unless there is something new I'm not aware of. Think of it this way - if there is just ONE user out there not able to handle the bitrate, what are you going to do - alter the source? Multiple source files at varying bitrates is the way to handle it. I suppose it would be possible to automatically bump down to a slower speed streaming source if your connection couldn't keep up, but I'm not aware of Apple implementing something like this. And if they did, it wouldn't apply in a streaming from computer to iWatch anyway.
2.) Airport with AirTunes - yeah - that's why I'm expanding this model to include more. Except now you'd have a remote, a screen, a UI, pictures, video, and movies. This takes that dead end and extends it. Maybe it was practice for this all along...
3.) take it with you - well, no reason you couldn't download a video onto an iPod and have it play back somewhere else, or possibly on it's own tiny screen (except for heavy power draw battery duration and hard drive lifespan issues)
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