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High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.

YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com

All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.

Monday, March 13, 2006

SXSW Panel: XDCAM HD Mini-Meeting 

Here's all my raw notes on this panel, given by a Sony rep

----------

XDCAM HD

-has thumbnail mode to find clips
-has random, non-linear access
-plug and play w/current infrastructure
-does proxy video on the fly - records high res, frame accurate proxy for the high res
-proxy is like 2mbit
-over File Access Mode or GigE, can do about 20x realtime to get the proxy off
-low res proxy quickly, conform to high res later on (video is 1.5 mbit) in a pinch can air it, better than videophone (imagine wartime Iraq phoned in video).
-what's the pixel res of the proxy? The guy didn't know

-XDCAM was introduced to take over betacam and other stuff

-XDCAM HD has 2 year "bumper to bumper" warranty

-XDCAM HD is on the heels of the SD XDCAM stuff. Sold about $11,000 XDCAM standard def stuff sold so far

-has slow shutter (three frame accumulation is what they call it, frame blending is what I'd call it)

-"keep your ears open at NAB for some significant announcements between Sony and Apple" - so yeah, expect it to support XDCAM HD

-they're using MXF - MXF is a SMPTE standard file wrapper. MXF is an interchange format. it is a wrapper to go around the internal file format standard, helps interoperability between systems and equipment.

It isn't the mechanism to DO the transfer, it is a way to HELP the transfer

-e-VTR reads all 1/2" formats, mark an in and out, and it goes out GigE as a file - that is cool. MXF is involved in this.

-AVC is for capture and control for laptop and desktop, including downconvert

-File Access Mode mounts the Blu Ray XDCAM HD disc as a disk so you can access as files to pull over the footage

-has 9 pin deck control

-can drop a memory card on a memory stick to record proxy video, is about 1 GB/hr on the SD camera

-product lineup - HDV is low end, HDCAM and HDCAM SR are the high end. XDCAM HD stuff falls into the middle between the low and high. It has similarities with both low and high end in terms of ease of use, FireWire, but also professional 9 pin integration, HD-SDI etc.

23GB single side single layer. At lowest high def data rate, 2 hours.

When dual layer comes out, expect to get double capacity

-in the future (a yearish), a 2/3" system will come out to use bigger discs (and also 4:2:2 I've been told)

3 recording modes:
1.) 18 megabit 4:2:0, 120 min or more VBR (variable bitrate)
2.) 25 megabit, 4:2:0, 25 mbit is very similar to HDV. Audio is uncompressed here, HDV is compressed audio, 90 min or more
3.) 35 mbit 4:2:0 VBR, 60 min or more

METADATA - data about the data - frame rate, camera I'm using, all kinds of metadata that is written to disc. Don't need to use post it notes on the tapes etc. - the data travels with it all the way to the NLE (if the NLE supports it), XML based

-there is provided metadata space. There are some defacto metadata, shot markers in camera, there are tools to assign flags that work with an Avid (can use for good take/bad take etc).

Q: can you do this after the fact of shooting (screenig stuff off camera or deck)
A: yes you can. Each disc can write ADDITIONAL data to add metadata. There's also a 500 MB directory on each disc to put ADDITIONAL data on the drive, it's just raw space to add whatever extra stuff you want. THIS IS GOOD AND USEFUL AS ALL GET OUT.

XDCAM HD vs. HDV @ 25mbit
-MPEG layer 2 for HDV, uncompressed 4 track on XDCAM HD
-SD video codec - DVCAM on XDCAM HD, DV or DVCAM on HDV

discs are $30 apiece - if it breaks, shrug and ditch it, unlike P2 which you'll cry about if you break one

Q: when they go to dual layer, will it work with existing XDCAM HD?
A: NO - dual layer will be for 2/3" cameras, not for these 1/2".

The PDW-F350 is the nicer camera of the two:
-2 inch B&W viewfinder
-HD-SDI out
TC in/out separated
XLR audio inputs
24p/25p/30p/50i/60i capable
$25,800 with NO LENS

PDF-F330 - about $17K
1.5" view finder
HD/SD component output
TC in/out switchable
-RCA pin x2 audio output
24p/25p/30p/50i/60i capable

The 350 can over/undercrank to do fast/slow motion, like the Varicam can.

can shoot 60p and play back 24p

CAN'T DO 60P FOR 60P PLAYBACK (which is odd, but OK - you could do some tricks to get 60p at 60p at post though I'm sure)

Can take clips from camera and make a virtual playlist, and trim them down individually, in a non-destructive manner play'em back in order. Pre-editing stuff to in the field, on the camera.

When doing blocking, can queue up a clip, set in and outs, and flip back and forth to compare the shots - for sets or for news, saves a bunch of time without winding around on the tape (SAVES TIME!!)

-time lapse capability - set it up for a 7 hour timelapse and away you go

-both cameras have FireWire standard

-usually don't want to use cameras as decks or a feeder deck because of head wear- with optical, zero head contact, no head wear, so worth doing.

-camera uses 1/2" 3 chips, 4:2:0, 18-35 mbit, can also capture DVCAM in standard def mode. Native 16:9 chip,
native record modes:
23.98p, 25/, 29.97p, 50i, or 59.94i @ 1080 res
-uncompressed audio

4 position optical ND filter
-various speed shutter, has slow shutter mode (slows down shuttering, take advantage of the light coming in - it's frame blending.

1-8, 16, 32, and 64 frame "accumulation" that blends'em together, and gotta be in 50i or 60i mode to use it

-freeze mix - lets you ghost mix a recorded frame and live feed

scene files - all the setup that you have, can save as a file on a memory stick, can save an open ended number to memory stick, or save 5 on camera without the need for a memory stick at all

-time lapse - 1 frame or 3, 6 frames, or a trigger (1 frame/sec to 1/day) ASK ABOUT THIS - 1/3/6 WHAT?

-4 to 30 in roughly one frame increments, then leaps to 60 for

-Easy Mode - does a basic simple generic setup (looks like hell out of the box, is set up for news out of the box)

-can control some basic stuff with a remote

-3.5" flippable LCD viewfinder

DECKS:

PDW-F70 is the recorder

Traditional A/V - HD-SDI, FireWire native, lists for $15K, player is $10Kish, 9 pin deck control, etc.

options: each board is $2K
network board - GigE
MPEGTS board - HD MPEG TS in/out conversion
Analog HD input board - HD Analog component input
SD to HD upconversion board - SD input for HD up-conversion (does it do anamorphic, center cut, and crop?)

F30 is the $10-$11K playback only unit for feeding NLEs

Expand function - from the thumbnail screen, you can take a single clip and fill the screen with stills from the whole thing. Pick one of those 12 chunks and can continue to zoom in, breaking it down to 12 more chunks to "zoom in" to a particular location on the clip, and can add markers to mark in/out for ingest into editing system. Can whittle down to just the clips you want, just the portion you want. Can zoom in 3 times for 1/1728th of the source clip.

In playlist mode it'll zero out the timecode mode, so you'd lose the source time code, so NOT RECOMMENDED for film style workflows where you'll need to match back later

Going forward for archive:

XDCAM Cart - PDF-C1080 is a big 80 disc system with up to 4 drives - $80K, room for 4 decks, 80 discs, nearline storage - proxy server and full res server

biger 600 Disc XDCAM Cart avialable later this year for a bit more

eventually a jukebox - acts like a NAS device

XDCAM intelligent

-bare drive for internal/external computer mounting.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO POP A DISC INTO A BLU-RAY READ/WRITE ON YOUR COMPUTER, GOTTA GET XDCAM HD SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT IS A SHELLED, NOT BARE DISC. And there are additional issues as well beyond the physical form factor. The 500GB allocated extra space has to be dealt with for instance, so that's different firmware, for instance.

Also, lenses are likely to be $8K to around $22K - so full package is $32 to $47Kish then.

Mike from Sony gave the preso, very well done.

-mike

Thanks to Blake and esp for correcting some mistakes I made, read the comments for some further details on MXF
Comments:
I believe the 330 does do 24p, just not the over and undercranking stuff.

My question is, can you "drag" files to your computer like with P2, or are you still capturing the current way you would with tape? Thanks.
 
Blake - my understanding (and I'm certainly open to being corrected) is that there's a high and low and camera, and that 24p is one of the differentiating factors.

You can access the files on the disc, but my understanding is that you'll need an MXF plugin or the next version of FCP (perhaps, strongly hinted at) in order to use'em. Similar to what happens with P2 cards or existing XDCAM (the SD stuff) does.

So I don't think you can drag and drop and go, there may be some conversion or something necessary. But that's just my present understanding. I do know you can't drag and drop and go on the SD stuff, so it probably will be similar.

Hi Blake!
 
Thanks Mike! Just to follow up... I checked out the Sony website and found this info: "The PDW-F330 XDCAM ™ HD camcorder offers a choice of 60i/50i or true 24P/25P/30P recording with over 2 hours of recording time on Professional Disc™ media"

Here's the link: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcamhd_cameras.shtml

Looks like main difference between 350 and 330 models are the 350 offers over/under cranking and HD-SDI. I think it has a bigger/better viewfinder too.

I wish you could drag & drop the files. I use Avid and it's MXF-based, so you'd think it would be seamless in that respect (like P2).

Interesting stuff!
 
dear Mike

from the Sony XDCAM HD press release (Jan 18 2006):
The two XDCAM HD camcorders - models PDW-F330 and PDW-F350 - both offer the production features that professional users need, such as true 24P recording in SD or HD, interval recording, and slow shutter.
The PDW-F350 additionally offers true variable frame rate recording capabilities; also commonly known as "over-cranking" and "under-cranking" or "slow-motion/fast motion" functionality.
and also HD SDI out (The 330 has only analogue component out).
Also both have FW out for transfering clips in File Access Mode and DV out.
The XDCAM disc can do 72Mbits (144Mbits for the 1500 SD deck with the dual pick up) while the blue ray only 36Mbits at least in the 1X incarnation. In the SD they use 50Mbits for the MPEG2 4.2.2 signal, 10Mbits for the audio and 12Mbits for headroom. I guess when the 2/3 inch camcorder rolls out they will go for 4.2.2 MPEG2 HDV at 50Mbits which will outperform DVCPROHD (100Mbits DCT)and rivaling HDCAM quality.
In a forum I've read that CBS had placed a huge order for a NewsGathering camera and that was the driving force behind Sony's decision to bring a 1/2 inch HD camera to market when they have abandoned the 1/2 inch SD market for quite sometime.

In regard with the MXF file transfer there is Flip 4 Mac MXF import component where you can ingest from Gbit E clips from the XDCAM disc to Final Cut BUT YOU CANNOT EXPORT them back to disc (At IBC05 they told me that export will be possible by NAB06)
http://www.flip4mac.com/mxf.htm


For Premiere there is VT XDCAM Plug-In that allows IMPORT and EXPORT of XDCAM files to disc. I've worked with it in SD and its fantastic. you just drag and drop from the disc to the bin. Huge time saver
http://www.videotechnics.com/

hope this helps

esp

espgr@yahoo.com
 
esp and Blake - thanks for the corrections! Updating blog entry now
 
It doesn't do 60p though. The 60p mode is half rez. Ouch.

Graeme
 
XDCAM HD is a far better solution to P2. IMHO. By the time P2 has dropped in price enough to be useful XDCAM HD will probably be giving us 288Mbps :-)!!!!

I'd take these first gen XDCAM HD cameras over the HVX with its soft noisey images.
 
I would like to see comparrisions btw the XDCAM @ 35 mbps (4:2:0) and DVX200 @ 100 mbps (4:2:2). It would be interesting to see the trade-off btw sensor size and higher compression. I also wonder how the HDCam 35 mbps does with color correction. It is essencially slightly suped-up HDV w/ uncompressed audio, right?
 
I've already done the XDCAM-HD vs. HVX200 comparsion (proto XDCAM-HD camera), the Sony blew the Panny out of the water.

35Mb/s VBR MPEG-2 looks VERY good, or at least the encoder on the Sony is very good . . . there was no digital blocking or wierd motion artifacting.

Overall the weapon of choice for me would be the Sony.

BTW, the Avid workflow is very smooth. With the disk or camera in FAM mode (file-access-mode), you can do all the drag-drop you want into the Avid interface, and the metadata stays intact (or at least UID's, etc. do). This is a couple steps beyond what Apple or Adobe can offer with their Videotechnics or Flip-Factory plug-ins. Plus you can do proxy editing and automatically re-link to a high-resolution file very easily.

So after evaluating both, I do have to say the XDCAM is much more convenient, and based on the results I've seen from the HVX200, the PDW-F350 is a much more capable camera.

Of course Panasonic has their new Pro-P2 camera coming out at NAB, so that will be interesting to see.
 
How does the Grass Valley Infinity compare to these XDCAM-HD Cams? Also, you said lenses are 8-22K, is the 8K using an SD ENG/EFP lens, or can you get an HD lens for that little.
 
surprise surprise, a 25-45'000 dollar 1/2" camera does outperform a 6-10'000 1/3" camera.

++ chris
 
The only surprise Chris is why Panasonic have the afrontery to call the HVX a HD camera and that so many people have been taken in by the hype. The HVX is clearly a SD camera that records HD format files. As any fairminded individual who is not caught up in the Panasonic propaganda will testify.

When is HD really HD? Not when it is captured on a HVX that is absolutely for sure. When is 4:2:2 really 4:2:2? That is another debate....
 
awesome to have you back in action Mike.

Look forward to more news and thoughts on the whole XDCAM-HD thing.

Looks like potentially the next step for my small production company which is currently based around the sony HDV cameras. It sounds like it will potentially be a format that will give higher quality images and capabilities with a reasonable cost. Allow us to take the next step to competing with the bigger production businesses.

Though I must remember the added computing power and associated costs which most likely will be required.

Keep the news coming. Thanks
 
It's Sony, so it's proprietary. The fileformat etc. That is wat I never like about Sony (when will they release HDV-cam?) Will we be able to take the XDCam HD files from the disk to a NLE, cut them and write back to a disk/tape/whatever without losing quality? Will we be able to take the files directly from the camera or will we be forced to buy an extra Sony XD-Cam player? I bet we will!

Martijn Schroevers
PS: Good to have you back blogging Mikey!
 
JZ - $8K was for an HD lens

Infinity vs. these - excellent question

Guy - as for resolution, it does use pixelshift which does legitimately buy you some more res, but I agree they are definitely stretching it to say a 960x540 gives a 1920x1080 image. In my limited eyeballing experience, the 1080 res didn't look much better than the 720p res in terms of sharpness.

Martijn - there should be some native codec support at NAB from numerous players if I'm reading his "multiple significant announcements from NLE vendors" comment correctly.

-mike the blogger
 
i'm not that convinced of the HVX either, but saying it's an SD camera is just plain weird. show me a SD camera that resolves over 600 lines. and while not HD related, also show me an SD cam that shoots decent greenscreen and 60P for under 10K.
++ chris
 
600 lines?

More like 550 lines if you are lucky. Which is pretty SD by any measure.
 
CHRIS: "show me a SD camera that resolves over 600 lines"

Well since you asked Chris, I couldn't resist......
>>> http://www.reel-stream.com/andromeda.php
There ya go. An SD camera that resolves over 600 lines as requeted
______________________________

CHRIS ALSO SAID :"also show me an SD cam that shoots decent greenscreen and 60P for under 10K"

Well.....I just couldn't resist again.....
>>> http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/specs.jsp?model_id=MDL101539&feature_id=03
There ya go. In SD it shoots 480/60p, and great chromakey too! *smile*

I hope that helps,

- ShannonRawls.com
 
over File Access Mode or GigE, can do about 20x realtime to get the proxy off

File Access Mode (FAM) is PC only, Sony have not yet and apparently have no intention of providing Mac drivers for this.

25 megabit, 4:2:0, 25 mbit is very similar to HDV. Audio is uncompressed here, HDV is compressed audio

my understanding from the Sony reps is that this is the only difference ... regarding picture, XDCAM HD @ 25Mbps is identical to HDV

In regard with the MXF file transfer there is Flip 4 Mac MXF import component where you can ingest from Gbit E clips from the XDCAM disc to Final Cut BUT YOU CANNOT EXPORT them back to disc (At IBC05 they told me that export will be possible by NAB06)

flip4mac have currently reversed their position, in that they are now NOT planning an Export component ... I'm hoping that this will be because Apple has acquired their component, added Export, and will be announcing and releasing this at NAB.


other info I didn't notice:
current XDCAM cams shoot IMX50 and DVCAM. these first release XDCAM HD cams with the 1/2" chips shoot 4:2:0 MPEG-2 MP@HL1440 or DVCAM ... they have dropped the IMX50 capability.
the next release with the 2/3" chips will shoot 4:2:2 and restore that IMX50 capability
 
You write the camcorders do 24p, whereas the official Sony documentation only mentions 23.98p.
 
Anonymous - you are completely right, it is 23.98. Actually, it is 23.976, but that is a pain to write out. For convenience, it's often just referred to as 24p. The "'p" implies video. When I want to talk about true 24.0 fps, I write out...24.0 fps, and refer to it that way to clients.
 
Where this 24P-really-means-23.976 thing comes home to roost is in the PAL universe (oddly enough, most of the known world) where film is shot at 24fps and shown at 25, 29.976 and pulldown are unheard of, Varicams get reset to shoot 25P at 60Hz not 59.94Hz, 24P is indeed 24.000fps and if you get it wrong you're toast.
 
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