HD For Indies

While I was out in LA the other week, I had a chance to sit down and have lunch with Ted Schilowitz of Red the day after the LA screening and talk about the latest news and progress on the Red One camera. Without further ado, here's a transcript of the interview/conversation that I taped and later transcribed.

This is a monstrously long article, so if in a hurry you might just want to skip down to the Wrap Up/Bullet Points and/or my Conclusions/Analysis/Takeaway. (This also includes my own "state of Red" analysis, similar to what I did back in May after NAB.)

In any case, here we go, starting with my conversation with Ted:

Q: So Ted - how big is the team getting now that you guys are up to full steam?

A: We are definitely ramping up and continuing to do so....body count is not nearly as relevant as expertise count, The key team members count for a lot of bodies and keep us lean and super responsive to changing things for the better. We continue to morph and warp the team to their best ends, and that's why you're seeing the kind of progress you're seeing so quickly, and we still have these targets for end of the year builds.

(Ted also kept taking phone calls all through lunch - clearly a busy guy)

Q: Are end of year builds still as predicted?

A: Still looks like it is going to happen...that's week to week basically...we're continually charging ahead and working towards that, we have about a month/month and a half until Christmas break drops in on us

Q: End of year build plans: how many, how fast out?

A: Wait until mid-December and I'll have a much better feeling on how we're gonna do...it's a little too early on to say yet.

There's so much speculation about what we're doing...it's best for me to not add details until I'm ready to give you that...right now it would be speculation.

Q: My understanding is that you'll seed them out of house after you get comfortable inhouse - is this correct?

A: We'll be testing inhouse, the next step will be to increase the circle and the scope of the circle as to who gets to play. We've already started that with our test camera "Frankie" and David Stump. That was our first foray into letting some external trusted resources have a good sense of the ability of the sensor, and to cut through the speculation and just look at the actual facts and data, and get David to work his theory on what he sees and likes, and so far he's liking a lot.

A LOT of CML/ASC folks were at the screening yesterday, and as I understand it some pretty big names with some pretty big credits were there and watching, and gave some very favorable reviews to what we're up to...we're just going to continue down that path to try to make things better.

Q: Who are some of those brand name people?

A: Other than Dave (Stump), who is now public because we stuck his quote on our website and some files up on CML, and that's an active sub-community that is doing its own thing as we develop, positive/negative/whatever, it is good that people are talking and wanting to see what we are up to. Anybody else would be premature to say, in order to respect their anonymity until they are ready to talk publicly.

Q: Optical port - you've been talking about it, first time we've seen anything - is the plan to include the flash recording module with the camera and the optical port has to be bolted in place of it?

A: It'll definitely be either/or at this point in the development - it could change at any moment as we look at the logic of this - but current thoughts would be to have the flash module for onboard recording, replace it with the RAW port for uncompressed recording.

Q: ...and it'll be a "Unscrew & remove Red Flash, slap on and screw on optical port unit," right?

A: Yeah - it's targeted to be field swappable. The logic of what's included or not is still part of the development...so we just don't know the answer yet...that's the only valid answer - we know we're gonna have and offer both options, don't know what price, what's bundled, who wants what for their work environments, etc.

Q: So this is the high speed serial port earlier mentioned - what bus?

A: Not yet determined - I was discussing that this morning, it is still very much under development.

Q: What buses are you looking at? Fiber? Infiniband? That type of thing?

A: There's those, there's the 10 GigE route, Infiniband, you have multiple strands of 4 gig fiber, all those routes..all of which are in the engineering running...no clear winners/losers yet....we like the idea of open standards, we like being able to connect to multiple devices easily, letting 3rd parties build things that configure as needed and don't have to configure to a proprietary standard, so that you can use this and plug this into a post environment, take it so it doesn't just live with our rig, so that's where we are right now.

Q: So your current thinking is: Evaluating options, pick 1, that flavor coming out of this add on device, leaving the door open for new tech or market demand, correct?

A: Yes - that's the idea of it being modular - if form factor/logic/whatever changes...all kinds of things coming down the pipe - vast new development coming - lower cost, much more robust...etc. - it's just data pipes - the idea of not building it directly onto and totally locked onto the camera proper so that it CAN upgrade - similar concept to things that you'd think would be tough to upgrade - you want to give the logic of saying those pieces that are integral to the camera CAN be updated - like the sensor, for instance - so if X months or X years down the road after geting the 12 megapixel sensor out, our plan all along should be able to upgrade, if we do a next generation sensor, our plan all along and it holds to this day - you should be able to send it back to the factory (not a field swap) and upgrade the sensor (at whatever cost they decide - mike). If stuff changes you want to be able to be to, within the camera concept, as modular and upgradeable as possible - so if the raw port changes, you'll be able to upgrade it. You're just seeing where we are now - in a month it could look fundamentally different.

Q: So cost on it?

A: Everybody knows the price of the camera - the price has held. The logic is that everything is in line with that type of price structure - it won't be like "The camera is seventeen five, the RAW port is also seventeen five!" - we're NOT going to do that - that would be bad strategy! We are working hard to keep everything in line with a pricing model that makes the product accessible to lots of folks all over the world.

Q: REDRAIL & REDCAGE have changed - I noticed they look streamlined as compared to before, not quite so super-industrial and beefy looking. Have you set a price?

A: No price established as yet, just that it'll be in line with the pricing of the other accessories.

Q: I asked a question about how they were showing the rail and cage systems (REDRAIL and REDCAGE) as an all-in-one, and it looked like with both mounted the cage handles could get in the way (a new feature is that the cage arms can either be rubberized hand grips or the screw-in hole laden three sided angled pieces seen on red.com). It seemed to stick out pretty far towards your head when all kitted up - the new rubberized handles - what about flatter ones on the "your head" side when shoulder mount/hand held?

A: The cage theoretically is not really fundamentally designed for handheld shooting. You can use it for that, you can see we opened up a lot of that space - but ultimately if you're going to shoot handheld for long periods of time, you really wouldn't want the cage, just the rail.

There will be times you'd want to shoot handled with the cage - features, with fairly large crews that need lots of accessories. But shooting docs or something where you need to shoot all day handheld - sports or the like - you're likely not going to use the cage. There is still more work to be done on this front, for example on how you will mount accessories topside without the cage assembly... The bigger top plate with rails, depending on it's final design may or may not be able to go on without the cage, we'll see, and The I.D. team is working on small accessory plates that will do just that, (mount viewfinder, lcd, etc. without the cage) with minimal footprint requirements. We know how important it is to keep the camera profile as small as possible for certain shooting environments.

Q: That seems to presume the camera body is robust enough to handle those stresses.

A: Metal body is what we are working towards, final compositions of the types are being worked on as we speak so yes, it's designed to handle it. The camera body will be something designed for the rigors of shooting.

Q: All that new footage we saw yesterday - are you going to put new images up online?

A: Yes, that's the next step - not sure exactly when yet, but we will in a few days. It's coming - a lot of folks are already asking I'd imagine.

Q: New videos - put'em online?

A: Good question. Hmm.

Q: Sounds like that's an unknown.

A: Well, we just got through the presentation yesterday, so...now we've gotta start thinking about things after the fact that everyone wants to see...right now we've got the Juliet shot up and the girl blowing the bubble shot up - so we'll probably post one of those new ones up (as of Tuesday afternoon, those are down and two shots of new stuff ar up - mike).

Q: So just to ask it as it has been asked a zillion times since the presentation - why no outdoor, sunny with clouds, waving trees in broad daylight type of footage?

A: That's the next step in the process. From my perspective - loud and clear - I've heard it from so many sources - 'Stuff's looking awesome...the resolution is amazing, the range that we can see so far from what you've shown is amazing...but when do we get to see other stuff?' We're a small operation, working as hard as we can, working towards our engineering targets takes priority over everything else. That being said I clearly understand the desire to see the sensor doing it's thing with as many types of shooting as possible. It's all coming.

Q: What's the next public screening type event?

A: We don't have anything scheduled as of now. We've been pretty busy from September through...which is another reason why we don't have everything under the sun to show you guys yet. So we did IBC in September, then we did New York in October, then we did LA in November...so that's a pretty full plate considering we've still got to build the camera and get everything done. Screened the 4K stuff in New York to rave reviews, created another spike of interest. So I don't have another one scheduled officially yet.

Q: So is NAB the Next Big Thing for you guys?

A: Of course at NAB, definitely going to be at NAB. Other than that we don't know.

Q: ...or haven't decided it sounds like. Timeline - December assembly, start seeding to those to others in the January timeframe - is that right?

A: We want to hand it off to trained professionals...we're trained professionals on how to put it together...we want to put it in the hands of trained professional shooters. We'll shoot some stuff, and we are, and it looks pretty good, but getting guys like Dave Stump and some of the other guys from the ASC, there's been tons of people that have reached out to us from every scheme and every strata of production and post production, (I've gotten zillions of emails asking to hook folks up with Red as well to test shoot - mike) from the biggest biggest names in the industry, to the young up and comers who really embrace this revolution as we like to call it, the young guns that are going to take cinema to the next generation of people, and we think we are the tool to get them there. So you've got both sides of the coin - those guys that you definitely KNOW, reaching out to us - "We think what you're doing is great, we'd love to be a part of it, we'd love to help you test it, we'd love to help you prove it out." That's great. Adn then you've got the total underbelly guerilla next-gen guys, who'd love to be a part of it, who've got some cool projects, thoughts and ideas and want to prove all this stuff.  So hopefully that's what'll happen - it'll cultivate all that, all kinds of unique things proving out all the things people want to see in the month or so (after they start seeding units - mike)

Q: On the one hand - it's nice to have surprised everyone with Redcode, to have said "By the way, that thing you just saw? That was Redcode." So that if you didn't notice the difference then, at 4K in a theater on a 30ish foot screen, when are you going to notice/see/care about the difference...

A: Right, that was exactly the point...

Q: ...BUT it would have been nice to follow that up with another viewing once folks knew, or have done split screen or butterfly splits or something...

A: ...next steps in the process. Right. Exactly.

Q: That is one of the most common complaints I heard, that people felt you were being sneaky with it.

A: That's just Ted, I'm not being sneaky on purpose. We really don't think you can tell the difference, that's the amazing thing. But...it is interesting to a point, that maybe the next step in the process is not so much doing big public screening. This was the LA launch - didn't want it to get technical, I'll be talking about some of that in the Final Cut forum, plus the place was packed, we needed to get everybody out and get the next round of folks in, wasn't the place to do a 45 minute Q&A. But there are definitely places to discuss - the forums, your site, Jarred's site are all great places for that. And again, as we evolve as a company, from our development lab to an organization that has the resources to do some of this stuff - technical seminars, technical demonstrations, discussions of things like what you're saying - let's do a whole half day invitation to reservation holders - and other people that may want to come - on Redcode as it develops. Now what you saw is still very early on in the curve, and it is already looking pretty remarkable, so when we are ready to really sit down, and say "Let's look at what we're up to." we'll do it.

(I think showing something now as a "here's your first taste" was good - not bad for their first publicly shown dev code - in retrospect, if they WERE showing butterfly splits etc., that would make folks tend to think that would be indicative of final quality - that's what would stick in their minds, however good it looked at that point.

...but I did feel a little "Hey, wait a minute, go back!" at the time. -mike)

What I can say is that we've done that internally with some people that I would consider very influential within the industry, that pay a lot of attention to compression, and understand what it is and what it means because, they're trying to figure out archiving strategies and they're trying to figure out a lot of stuff on a very very large scale. They've seen it, and they couldn't tell the difference, and this was is a very high end screening and grading environment with a properly set up and calibrated 4k projector, and full black in the room....and that's amazing. We all did some serious poking and prodding on those images and at some point you really reach to see if you can see differences, and start thinking... "maybe a very slight difference here, or there" but the fact that thats the level you have to dive into when you compare uncompressed to REDCODE at this early stage of it's development... well you get the point.

Q: So in terms of testing volunteers, I'd imagine you're list is all full, right?

A: Well, not to say we don't want people to reach out to us, we've been as open as I believe we can be, while still pushing down our path and making sure we get things done on time and on target to be very communicative to people that reach out to us and talk to us, and say "We're interested in this, we want to be a part of your various beta programs, we want to be a part of what you're doing." I don't want to limit that in any way shape or form. I certainly can't get back to everybody personally - I do my best! I already spend about 18 hours a day sitting on my email client along with all the other engineering tasks. It's important for people to know that we're listening, and we're doing our best to pay attention, and you can't respond to everybody and everything, but everything has merit, and everything is at least attempted to be read through and listened to.

Q: REDRAM: updates?

A: There actually haven't been a lot of updates on it other than that we've been focused on the digital magazine and the flash, because those are the primary recording concepts and where we think most of are efforts should be applied. So you may not need 80 or 90 MB/sec which would be a whole bunch of RAM inside that magazine enclosure, and because the cost of that would be so much more than a spinning drive by a factor of 6:1, 7:1, 8 to who knows...it could be quite a bit more, that could be part of the "subject to change" - it could be "You know what, we don't think we need this anymore, or if we do its down in the priority list now." so it won't not ship when the camera ships, it might ship 6 months after the camera ships, if we discover a need for it...a lot of this is going to have to do with an active feedback loop from people using the camera - "Thing worked great, it did what it needed to do, it works the way it needs to work." and then you make enhancements. That's part of being a development company, you don't just stop developing once you start shipping the camera, you continue to enhance and tweak and change and work everything out.

Q: (I interject - I've seen cage go through three major shifts)

A: ...yeah - and we ain't done yet!

Q: REDRAID? What's going on with that?

A: Let's talk about what people think REDRAID is, there's a bit of confusion there. There is development discussions on two drive configuration onboard, so it is the digital magazine times two - double thickness, there's power draw, weight, size and other things to be concerned about, , but it does seem logical and valuable if we end up seeing value in going to a lower compression ratio, and of course for higher frame rates. That's the RAID configuration of the digital magazine, designed for mounting on the REDRAIL system or directly on camera with an adaptor plate.

Then there is the offboard REDRAID, the large array of hard drives to record the uncompressed RAW. That's a little further out - it's in the concept stages - we're also going to be relying on third parties and other things that fit into that smaller part of the market. We're focusing on where we think the largest part of the market wants to use our product, we think that'll be REDCODE onboard. There's some good products out there that are uncompressed 4k capable data recorders that'll want to link up and record and capture the ultra high end of the market that wants uncompressed to an external device.

Q: As for the camera itself, it looks like you're doing mini-HD-SDIs onboard?

A: Actually, there's a specific name for those connectors - they are the same as Kona3 - what a shock there! They are "one point oh slash two point three" (1.0/2.3) connectors, not to be confused with mini-BNC connectors although many do confuse them. It is the smallest physical connector that is robust enough that has a positive locking mechanism. If you have a Kona3, you know exactly why it is cool - it is small, no twist lock to struggle with, and it is starting to become an industry standard. There's some big routers being used in sports trucks that are now able to get a much larger foot print of cable I/O by using these connectors. We see this as the future. (As to why) - size and trying to break free of legacies that have been in there for long periods of time and no one's been bold enough to take a stand - if you want to push forward, there are so many advantages to going to a smaller connector. Of course you'll have pigtails and dongles and whatnot to go to existing cables. We're doing the same thing with audio with mini-XLR - not the big fat XLR connectors. Size and modern product consideration rules the day in our world.

(There's always a line there in terms of needing an adaptor I have to keep track of, not standardized cables. I hate that my Quad G5 has a special power cord, and ONLY that cord works with that computer, for example - mike) There's definitely a trade-off - the idea is to keep the camera as small and robust and light as possible, so if you just had a couple of those connectors, there may not be much impact - but there's the inside impact - the internal plate to mount those connectors, there's a logic beyond the front face of what you're seeing as to why we made those choices.

Q: User Interface on camera - when might we see something? We've heard about focus assist, exposure goodies etc.

A: You'll hopefully see the first view of that Dec/Jan as we get the first cameras built, that'll be some of the first things we show - "Here's our camera, here's how it stands now, here's how it works."

Q: I'd heard some talk on the boards about user interface options - how big/deep/priority is it?

A: It is in continual discussion on our end, it is a big priority, I would say we want to go as deep as the user community wants, but we don't want to make it so convoluted and complex that people get frightened off. One of the things we're continually working on is the metaphors of what our camera is, and who is going to use it and why, and not get bogged down in "Now I have to read this 72 page white paper to figure out what to do here." This camera is designed for shooters. It's designed for people to go work with. If you look at everything we're doing and how we're building it, the logic is simplicity and then drill down. As opposed to the flip side of "let me drill down for 2 1/2 weeks to figure out what you really wanted to tell me in the first place which was push push these two buttons and this is what you get out of it." There's obviously going to be reasons for both. We want things to be simple and exposed to as many users as possible to get the functionality they need out of it, and then obviously for the post production professionals, or the people looking at how they take all this material shot on Red and push it through a post production workflow, that's where things like Redcine workflow comes in, the stuff that Graeme and Rob and that team are working on.

Q: Price - you talk about how proud you are that the price is still holding...

A: I am happy it is still holding...

Q: ...would it be fair to presume that it is not guaranteed to hold when orders re-open at whatever point in the future when they do?

A: It'd be fair to presume that, like it is fair to presume that anything can change at a moment's notice with the project. As we get closer to the finish line, we're continually learning about what it is going to take to deliver this product at a certain price point. We have a certain level of commitment to the reservation holders. Without putting a hard iron clad guarantee - because that's what we've always set out not to do so that people aren't dissapointed - we're going to work very hard for those close to 1100 reservation holders all over the world that are locked into this then, to hold to that price point, and keep the accessories at a price point where they can afford them, that it makes logical sense for them to own them - we want them to have a full featured system. We don't want them to feel that they could only afford half of it, or only afford just this piece and that piece but not a full kit. As we move through the next couple months of our existence, we decide what our next strategy is.

After the October 31st deadline, when we took a lot of last minute reservations, It was a bit of a perfect storm - we showed at IBC, then in New York, then it was time to close the reservations. We did it (took reseravations for $1000) to gauge interest, there was no pre-thoughtout marketing angle to it - "Are we on the right track? Are we building the right thing at the right price point? Are we doing the right stuff? Who really wants in?" that's what we wanted to see. We saw a huge range - people from all over the map - in the kind of customers that want this camera. It proved our point - now we can stop the reservations. Since that date a lot of peoople are calling and emailing and fighting me, they saw it in LA and a whole new rash of people that wish they had a reservation. All I can say is "things change around here, so keep a close eye."

Q: I heard on forums about march or april that it would open up again...

A: That's just forum talk - we don't have a strategy yet, and that's just completely honest about where we are. We just got done with showing the stuff in LA, we got done with the reservations a week and a half ago, we don't have a strategy in place. As we get closer to a ship date and start getting a feel "Yes, we're going to hit this target, or be ahead or behind." At that point we'll start taking pre-orders for after the reservations holders. Now a different strategy for once we have a targeted ship date. If folks are comfortable to pre-order at that point, we'll have a strategy for that. I'm telling you as it's coming out of my head. Whether it is going to actually happen that way is yet to be determined, but I think that's a pretty sound strategy. We want people that are as interested but may have missed the reservation deadline but want to get in on the action to be able to get in another, secondary queue.

Q: So, when you're ready, you might say "Starting in two weeks we'll begin taking pre-orders" or something like that to give folks a head's up?

A: Yeah, maybe. And of course all the accessories or any new pieces that we create, existing reservation holders always get first dibs. That's what we want to adhere to as best we can, to reward those guys and gals and companies who are taking the ride and got on early.

Q: Once you do start shipping - you've got a good idea of what the demand is, your 1100 plus other interest - now that you've got some idea of volume expectations, how fast are you going to be making these?

A: I think we're going to build and ship a lot of cameras is what I think!

Q: Any idea how long to catch up on the 1100?

A: I have an idea, but I don't want to raise expectations higher or lower than they should be other than as we get closer, we'll have better estimates, and we'll do our best to update people. But we're planning on producing lots of these things - in one of our letters I sent out to the group we want these cameras in customers hands as much as you (the reservation holders). We want that as much as you do. Our goal is not to just ramp up and trickle these out, our goal is to GET THESE THINGS OUT TO THE WORLD. And we'll do our best. These are all hard questions to answer.

Q: Expecting hundreds of units a month once you get going?

A: I would hope so.

Q: Optical port - since you can't do flash/optical simultaneously, will you be able to (maybe that'll change Ted says!). At present level of development it is one or the other. Would it still be hot on all the other ports?

A: HD-SDI and the others? Yeah, that's the idea. They will be hot for monitoring while in RAW or RGB mode or capture to single link or dual link HD-SDI recorders when the camera is in RGB mode.

Q: Run to Red Drive and optical port simultaneously?

A: Yes (got confirmation after the interview).

Q: I think I'm behind the curve on this: what's the deal on putting still lenses on the Red camera? Mounts etc.? I see lots of forum talk about this as a fair accompli, but no hard data from Red on it.

A: Well, that's about all we know too - there will be an adaptor to go from 35 still to 35 PL mount lenses.

Q: I don't see the big bolt circle on the front anymore...

A: There's a standard PL mount locking ring...yes, designed for 35mm PL mount lenses, the bolt circle in front has changed, it is most likely an adaptor for use with 35mm still lenses. We are in the midst of the optical front end design right now, so we're at the figuring out stage on that front.

Q: So there'll be some kind of a still lens mount adaptor, but what form factors?

A: There's the Nikon, Canon, and others, they have their own pin-out configuration which at this point in time, although we see a future pathway for electronic PL, those 35 still lenses won't have any way to talk to the camera yet. So the older Canon lenses are what you're going to want to use - manual aperture and focus because the newer ones are designed for electronic operation.

(interruption - waiter stuff)

Q: You said Nikon, Canon, and will have an adaptor...I'm guessing you'll say it'll be the popular options.

A: The newer generation of Canon are all automatic which are controlled by the camera electronics - there's no way to manually control on the lens itself, so you'd have to use older generation lenses that have a manual iris.

Q: ...and you'll have some kind of mount adaptor in the future...schedule and price TBD.

A: Yeah.

Q: Random techie question I heard from an experienced shooter - backfocus stuff and complementary metals for thermal adaptation issues?

A: Yes, that issue is addressed.

Q: But with an adaptor, you're not doing the whole front plate removal...

A: I don't know the answer to that, it is changing day to day

Q: Redcode - changes?

A: Yes as it stands after recent development we've gone from 10 bit to 12 bit linear, which buys us a lot, you should have Graeme give you the details of the advantages having over 4000 color steps instead of 1024.

(I did - that's a separate interview)

Q: Data rate targets - with the move to 12 bit, the data rates are holding?

A: Yes, and we're ecstatic with the results.

Q: How do you feel Red One will compare with the exisitng D-cinema options presently on the market?

A: This isn't so much me speaking as the community speaking through me - what people have told me, and why I've reguritated in the presentations, what they're looking at is a whole new breed of animal. It doesn't look like anything they've ever seen before. The closest thing is if they took the best high end digital SLR on the market and it could shoot motion pictures, and gets that creamy, milky, very cinematography like look...it doesn't look like video. As we continue to move forward, we are building each day less and less of a "video camera" and more and more of a next generation digital imaging system that looks, as I've heard it described, as film without grain. If you were shooting very low ASA film properly exposed, and it kept beautiful colorimetry and depth of field and all the characteristics, has this creamy, rich, beautiful filmic look without the film grain. So nothing I've seen (and I've spent a lot of time looking at digital projection around town looking at the other cameras in action shooting big budget movies and indie films and whatnot, and they look nothing like what we're doing from my perspective. They don't have the resolution number one, they don't have the sense of tonality, the sense of characteristics that we're seeing in these early tests. I think that is just going to increase and get better and better over time. I'm super excited every time we look at this stuff, and one of the nice perks of the job is that I get to hang out in 4K theaters and 4K screening rooms to see what we're shooting and experimenting with, and I get charged up every single time, I'm not jaded at all to this, to my eyes, to Jim's eyes, and others on the team are doing it a lot these days, we love every minute of it, we wanna see more, we wanna shoot more, we're lining up resources to do that. You're seeing the first glimpses of that with Dave Stump and the charts and greenscreen stuff, we can't wait ot get to the next stage of our development, shooting all the time. Not quite there yet, but we're getting there.

Q: Flash ingest?

A: there will be some kind of card reader, or the slot will go directly into an Express34 slot on your Mac or PC laptop.

Q: If you have some incompatible hardware, or need realtime, you can use that realtime industry standard bus to use the camera as a deck - I need 9 pin control to use the camera as a deck.

A: Would it be better not to tie up the camera? (and then my recorder ran out of space and stopped) His answer boiled down to they don't have that port on the camera, and aren't likely to add it for such an edge case. However, he was open to the possibility of making a piece of hardware that might fulfill that need, but the pricing would be indicative of the size of the market for it...thus likely pricey.

=============

WRAP UP/BULLET POINTS

Price - still holding, but no promises - reservation holders get first dibs on new accessories

Ship date - no new info

Optical port - the bus topology is as yet undetermined, but presently they think it'll be a field swappable module - replace the Flash memory recording unit with the high speed port unit

-footage - looking good so far, have some new stills up on red.com, full size, uncompressed test frames up on cinematography.net

-Redcode & Redcine - see the workflow article

-still lens mounts - no hard data, but there will be a solution, likely an adaptor for manual control lenses (no pinout support for newer electronically controlled lenses). No specifics on brands/types supported as yet, but it seems like older, manual (non-electronically controlled) Canons will be a safe bet, that's what he talked about most

-REDRAIL/REDCAGE evolving, getting lighter and more modular/flexibly configurable, ENG/field shooting config shown in LA

-plan is to get prototypes into hands of real shooters to evaluate and shoot with the camera in the January timeframe

-for future purchasers - will come a time they'll take pre-orders, TBD

-unclear how long it'll take'em to fullfill reservation holders' orders

-Redcode - showed it in LA, didn't mean to be sneaky, just wanted to give a preview of what it looked like so far while under development

-Red will definitely will be attending NAB, but don't know what their next public event will be between now and then

-Redflash - sounds like there will be a card reader for it

-Ted's very optimistic about how Red One will compare with the other d-cinema cameras out there

-no firm estimte at this time as to shipping date, nor how long from that date until reservation pre-orders are filled and new orders could be filled

-new videos & CAD renders (stills are up from the latest new footage) are coming to the website

-they are still open to new folks expressing interest for testing (but I would say you should probably have a good reason to stand out from the crowd, since there is a crowd expressing interest - mike)

-mini-connectors to standard buses - it'll be XLR and HD-SDI, but with mini-connectors to them - pigtails/adaptors will be required to interface with industry standard cabling


OPINION/ANALYSIS/TAKEAWAY:

The maximum flexibility modular idea is still holding - from the upgradeable sensor, to the field swappable high speed port, etc. - it is still a modular, upgradeable camera....and that is extremely good news. One of the things I was worried about was whether the modular, upgradeable, expandable nature of the camera would get hemmed in by time or engineering constraints.

So far, there are only a few areas where I feel Red could be dinged for fudging. While they've always said, loud and clear, no promised ship dates, all specs subject to change, their announced intent has drifted a bit.

One is the ship date - as I understand it, they made it sound like they camera would be shipping by year's end, now they are putting first units together for internal then external testing, and the last guesstimate Jim gave for shipping to reservation holders was a March/April timeframe.

The second is the recording modality, specifically frame rates - they were very big and clear on the capability of the camera to record 60fps full aperture (4 or 4.5K), and up to 120fps windowed down (16mm sized aperture). While the SENSOR and the CAMERA are still capable of that, it now appears that those speeds will only be capable of being recorded offboard - the onboard processing can only handle up to 4K RAW @30p or 2K RGB @ 60fps. In a forum discussion, Stuart laid out the full list of what will be possible with the compressed Redcode stuff:

Internal / Local : (REDCODE to RED-FLASH or RED-DRIVE etc)

4K RAW @ 1 - 30fps
2K RAW @ 1 - 60fps
2K RGB @ 1 - 60fps
1080p @ 1 - 60fps (Generate 1080i if desired from a 1080p recording)
720p @ 1 - 120fps

(There's Redcode RAW compressed, or, um, just raw RAW uncompressed. This is for compressed)

...so that the only way to shoot the maximum frame rate (120fps) at the maximum quality onboard will limit you to 720p resolution (not 2K), most likely derived from the windowed sensor at 16mm aperture (or will it have to window down even further to get that 120 fps? Not clear as of this writing, will update when I get a confirm).

To get the maximum frame rate, you'd need to use the high speed optical port, which they haven't settled on a bus topology for as yet. Ted mentioned 10 gigabit Ethernet was in the running, I certainly like that idea - it is a single bus (not multiple bundled connections, like twin 4 gig fiber would have to be) that is fast enough, and while it isn't mainstream yet, it clearly is going to be moreso in the future, promising decreasing costs. I could envision it on the motherboard of Mac Pros and high end PCs in a few years, and the cost of the add-in cards is sure to drop, as whatever the next flavor of ethernet always has. If the port is that, then the recording devices obviously have to have that, and then opens the door to things like making the external recorders interface back in editorial/post via ethernet of any flavor - perhaps as an FTP server or somesuch? That would certainly simplify things in post if you could connect at whatever Ethernet speed you could support. Ted mentioned nothing along those lines, this is my own conjecture, but I sure like the thought of it.

The CAMERA can still shoot 120 fps 2K, but you can't record it onboard with the accessories they are discussing openly at this time. And since there hasn't been a clear answer as to timetable on REDRAID & REDRAM, that means it is sounding likely that the camera may ship in a way that there aren't recording options for 4K+ @ 60fps nor 2K @ 120fps. Speaking of which...

REDRAM and REDRAID seem to be slipping off the roadmap (or at least further down) - it would appear they are thinking maybe they aren't needed, and if they are, they'll ship well after the camera does. A new product seems to be sneaking in here - the REDRAID may be morphed from a big box of hard drives for uncompressed (clearly their stated intent at NAB & IBC, trust me on that one) into a small RAID for compressed recording on camera. But in any case, don't look to RED to make an uncompressed recorder right away - they'll be looking to third parties to do that up front, with theirs as a follow-on product well after Red One ships....if they do produce it at all. I do trust that they'll make sure there are options available eventually for high speed recording - it just may not be theirs at first, with their kind of pricing structure (other options are over $60K).

A multi-drive recorder for onboard, however, makes a LOT of sense - it buys us those high frame rates back potentially, albeit compressed. However, based on the quality of the frames that I've analyzed (yet another upcoming article), I think that is going to be OK. If REDRAID becomes a multi-drive unit for onboard 60/120 fps compressed recording, and a third party (maybe Codex? S.two?) becomes the field acquisition tool for uncompressed recording, and later Red comes out with their own, I'd be OK with that.

Red contines to eek out new imagery online, definitely managing their marketing throttle to keep the mix lean - folks are always hungry for more. From a marketing perspective, it is working for them. Folks always hungry for more, but are getting a little frustrated trying to see exactly what they want (sky/clouds shots, latest footage/body renders online), but then again...the camera is still 4/5 months MINIMUM from ship date - what other vendor gives this kind of access and details this early in the development? It is kind of funny how some folks are accusing Red of being opaque and withholding, yet they are more open and transparent than a lot of other vendors have been at equivalent stages of development.

But as of this writing (Saturday, Nov. 25th) they still haven't posted any new videos from the latest shoot stuff shown in LA, nor new renderings, and it has been 11 days (10 days since my interview with Ted). (Update - Jarred points out the Dave Stump/CML stuff...yeah yeah that's good, the techie half of the equation.) We wait, we wait...perhaps they are busy, perhaps it is still so in flux they want to wait and post finals, perhaps they want to wait until it is DONE and have a better surprise/splash (from a marketing perspective) when we see the final units perhaps in January publicly revealed? I don't know. Or maybe they are just busy and not thinking about it nearly that hard - Ted gives the impression on a lot of things that they are just head down trying to get the camera done, not thinking about these non-fundamental issues right now.

The decision to go with mini connectors for audio and video (and perhaps other) interconnects - it is definitely a tradeoff. By making the connectors smaller, it keeps the body size smaller, both internally and externally. The trade-off is that you'll need adaptors or pigtails for all your gear, and that isn't what is out in the field at present. In general/in theory I'd much rather go with standardized connectors - it is like my Quad G5 power cable - it is special, unique only to that box. I have 6 other computers in the house that can use any of the (literally) bucket full of standard plugs...but I have to keep track of that ONE special one for that particular piece of gear. Now imagine being on set and not having that one cable, or not enough of them for the task at hand. Same thing for the adaptors - my laptops have a mini-DVI connector - it is great that they CAN connect to a DVI monitor, but I have to keep track of that adaptor and always travel with it. I've saved some other people's butts at tradeshows when I had mine and they'd forgotten theirs. Perhaps in 5-10 years, the mini-connectors will be standard all over and Red will have been prescient, but for now it is a hassle to be dealt with, even though it has the benefits of keeping the camera small. A benefit we all like, but a "Yeah yeah that's great, but it is still a hassle." So I can agree with the decision, but I'm not thrilled with it.

Then there is still the risk of slipping ship date - as I said in May, any project this large and complex starts becoming prey to being victimized by the sheer scale of it - there are inherent linearities and dependencies in some aspects of the design & engineering and manufacturing processes. There is risk of delay in every component of the camera in each of these three categories. Multiply all the parts by all the risks, and as ANY product from ANY manufacturer faces increasing risk of delays as the product gets more complex. Fold in all of the new technology, the never been done, the never been done all together in one product aspects, and the risks increase even further. While the Red team has a lot of experience at prior companies, and has excellent resources and CAD driven, fast turnaround dev processes, there are risks of delays. So while I will be first to hoist a glass and cheer them if they ship as they hope in the March/April timeframe, if it is delayed until June or July I won't be surprised. I won't be happy about it (as I have an order in myself for one), but I won't be surprised. If it gets to be fall and they haven't shipped, I'll be getting cranky, for sure.

The risks beyond that would be in the area of QC - is it buggy? Is it robust for field usage? Does it crash, lock up, or drop frames? Those are unknown at this time as they have yet to put their first units together. But I can say I know these guys well enough, I've had enough long conversations with them, that they are extremely concerned about field operability and reliability - they'll be paying attention to those issues.

I'd MUCH rather they take their time to track down the last bugs rather than get it out to market with some problems - others with impending shooting dates might disagree, but I'd MUCH rather see them "sell no wine before its time" rather than appease some folks by kicking it out the door not quite done. First impressions on the market are not replaceable. Knowing Jim, they won't do that. No way. He's got a lot personally invested in it (and I don't mean money), and there are no outside investors (AFAIK) pushing this to market (always a risk in a regular startup). Here, he only has market demand to satisfy (a lesser demon). Since they've made no promises, they aren't beholden to any artificial schedules. I'm sure they'd like to say they are shipping by NAB, but at worst I could see them shipping a low number of hand built units to claim that feat - I don't picture them firing up full production with known significant hardware issues - that would be out of character for this team. Might they ship it with lingering software issues for those screaming to get their hands on it? I hope not..or if they did, the caveats would be loud and clear. But I still hope not, for first impression's sake.

The good news since that May write-up, however, is that a lot of risks have been taken off the table:

Image Quality - is simply stunning - smooth, creamy, rich, UN-videolike (no artificial sharpening or sweeteners, thank-you-very-much), amazing resolution, excellent dynamic range. There were a few complaints online that it didn't look quite as sharp as the Mysterious India 4K footage shown at NAB, IBC, and elsewhere, but keep in mind, that was shot 65mm, scanned at 8K, downsampled to 4K, and THEN projected on a 4K projector. Red is generating a 4K image from their Bayer pattern, CFA single sensor - one can argue it is more akin to 3-ish K after/due to the deBayering process. But in any case, it looks GOOD. And it really does look like a good, solid, high res, really nice DSLR shot...except at 24fps, with the capability to go up to 60 or even 120 fps. Take a look at the stills gallery and judge for yourself - while these were shot in controlled, optimized conditions, they are still stunning. Compare that to similar shots from other d-cinema cameras and judge for yourself. For the techies out there, go see the CML Comparative Tests - lattitude charts and greenscreen sample frames, uncompressed 74MB 16 bit TIFF frames for you to play with. There's even Redcode samples there. Which leads me to....

Compression with Redcode - we're seeing results of it now - they showed it at IBC, the showed it in LA, they have samples up on the web - simply put, it WORKS. And works REALLY well, especially compared to other options. I've opened up these 74MB still frames myself and crawled all over them, compressed vs. same frame uncompressed. You have to get in at 200% or better and start to look in very particular kinds of detailed areas to tell a difference between the two. I'm talking about in the shadow details of fine hair all going in different directions, or a very very fine pattern in clothing, or very very subtle texture to skin - and it isn't that you'd see artifacts in those areas, it merely is a touch softer than the uncompressed source, or there isn't as much detail in the compressed areas. Mostly I see it in differences in midtones, one midtone on another - a blonder hair crossing against the grain of browner hair, an extremely fine, subtle texture on a cheek, the slightest, subtlest texture of fabric nubble on a shirt. And only if I am doing A/B comparisons in Photoshop, turning layers on and off.

Interesting to note - these are also the kinds of details I can say definitively that are unlikely to survive a transfer to the 4K DCI digital projection specification - they'd be compressed out at the 4K JPEG2000 datarates in the spec. I've seen enough test results, up close and personal, and talked to enough other people involved in the process to say that with confidence (unless/until JP2K encoding tech improves dramatically).

It took me some digging around to even find these areas of difference - the usual suspects for compression artifacts - a single hair sticking out against the greenscreen or flat color, fine dark eyelashes against lighter skin - I saw no difference - Redcode, even at this developmental stage, doesn't introduce even visible differences at 200-300% zoom, let alone artifacts in the areas where DCT based systems introduce mosquito noise.

More on this later, but you get the idea - Redcode is going to work, and work incredibly well, for most situations and shooting conditions based on what I've seen so far. And again, we're only seeing developmental code - it isn't done yet. I'll have more to say in an upcoming article.

Physical Shooting Configurations - there have been complaints in the past when the Red One was shown fully kitted up with all available options, that it was too big and gangly to work with like that every day. To those folks, I say "No duh." - they were absolutely right, kitted out as shown it wasn't going to be something you'd want to hoist on your shoulder all day. They were showing the maximum amount of stuff you could build it out as.

What has been shown since that time, are other configurations - Red got the message loud and clear from IBC, so in LA they showed some new renderings (unfortunately not up on the website yet) that show a more condensed Red Rail configuration, with just the stuff one would need for ENG and EFP type environments. The key thing is this - Red One is a small camera that can be kitted out as big as you need it. Imagine a Red One with viewfinder, battery, lens, and internal Red Flash - maybe 15 or so pounds? You're ready to record at least 18 minutes of 4K 24p before changing the mag, which is as simple as swapping out a Flash card on your DSLR is - or changing a tape, for that matter. Need something to hang a ton of gear and accessories on? Red Cage. Need shoulder mount with or without accessories? Red Rail. As big or as small as you need it - that is the Red way. And it is good.

Post Workflow: I think they have some good answers for this too. I have a whole other 5000+ word article on that, will post tomorrow. Read that once it is up.

In general, things are looking extremely good - the form factor looks like it is going to work fine, the image quality is great, the compression tech looks excellent, and the overall philosophy of a modular, flexible, scaleable, upgradeable camera has survived the developmental process so far - and frankly, that is the one of the under-heralded benefits of this camera, above and beyond the image quality.

OK, that's enough for now, Stay Tuned for the Graeme Nattress/Stuart English interview on workflow, probably up tomorrow (its up now(. After than, my analysis on the sample frames posted up on CML.

-mike

Gratuitous Plug - I've already started doing some consulting for folks interested in small and large scale, Red based workflows - what equipment necessary, what storage and workflow options at different price, speed, and resolution points, etc. based on the preliminary info available and the specific needs of their proposed projects. If you'd like help in these or other high definition related areas, I am indeed available for consulting - mike at hdforindies d0t com.