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High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.

YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com

All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007

Mike's Thoughts on Apple TV 

Well, finally! Today Apple revealed some more details about what was once called iTV and is now simply called Apple TV.

If you don't know about it, you can read my geek summary here, or Apple's page on it is here.

Or watch the Steve Jobs Macworld 2007 Keynote.

I started hypothesizing about this kind of a device back in August of 2005, about a year and a half ago.

While I got the functionality mostly right, I got the form factor wrong - I figured it would be a big wall wart, they have it as a small set top box (with a hard drive included as well)

Some thoughts:

Is it worth it?

In its current incarnation as offered, frankly I think not
(although I'm buying one...and I don't have a suitable TV - what does that say about me?)

For many folks, this is really a movie box - you pay $300 for the box, you have to have a computer, a broadband internet connection, and then...it doesn't look as good as a DVD.

...and there are no extras, and you can't take it to your friend's house and play it there, and it only works on widescreen TVs, and it costs 6 times more than a basic DVD player, and the movie selection is tiny, and....why is this a good idea again?

There's a good story I heard from a venture capital guy once - aspirin vs vitamins. When you travel, the little bitty store in the hotel has aspirin for nine bucks for 4 pills. You grumble, but you pay for it - because you NEED it (OK, you just really WANT it, but you get my point). You'll notice they don't sell vitamins in those hotel mini-stores. Why? Because people buy what they NEED. Vitamins are good for you, a good idea, etc., but there is no core NEED. The VC's point was that you want to offer people aspirin, not vitamins.

All the other extra features, like streaming audio with a nice interface, looking at your pictures on the HDTV, being able to watch your purchased TV shows that you couldn't get anywhere else....those are all arguably just vitamins or things you get get some other way.

But on second thought...I do think there will be a subset of the population, me included, that would be happy with the iTV STRICTLY as a premium iTunes interface for their audio collection, with photo display as a bonus. TV/movie viewing is just gravy on top of that. And for right now, I think that is the ONLY way to see this as a possible success. Prepare to see this marketed as "iTunes on your TV, including movies" not "Hey watch downloaded movies on your TV!" With the really nice UI and great integration for audio content access, suddenly the perceived value goes up.

NOW...if they offer 720p downloadable HD movies, that changes the formula ENTIRELY.

Based on this article dealing with viewing distance, screen size and resolution, and knowing that most HDTV panels are actually under 1400x800 pixels at best (many are only 1024xsomething), 720p makes a whole lot of sense. Plus, 720p is a much more manageable download than 1080p.

SO...if Apple were to offer 720p resolution downloadable movies on a $300 device that also had some other fringe benefits (like viewing all your pictures easily, and a good interface to play back all your music) that would suddenly be a MUCH more compelling option than spending $500-$1500 for an HD playback device (Blu-ray or HD-DVD) that you didn't know if it was going to "win" the format war in a few years. Of course, Apple would also need to get additional studios beyond just Paramount (whom I hear is only offering older movies at this point in time, probably to test how well the encryption can or can't be circumvented)

HD movies would probably take up about 2-3 times as much space as the current standard def movies, that are taking up about a gig and a half for full length features (1.4 to 1.75 GB for the 3 I have at present on this box).

They could at least be potentially competitive with HD movies. And I'll betcha lunch that HD movies come out in the first half of this year, or surely this calendar year.

And I think their intent is clearly to head in that direction - as with everything iTunes, Apple eases their way into it - you'll notice they first did itunes based music videos (in low res), then TV shows, then movies, then jumped to SD resolutions. At the same time, Apple started phasing in high def movie trailers - wisely practicing to see how well the infrastructure, from servers to bandwidth, could handle it.


So, on to other features...

-EDTV or HDTV only - this will be a crunch point that a lot of people won't get - it wasn't until I heard EDTV that I got suspicious and decided to check it out - a regular 4:3 TV will not, Not, NOT work with Apple TV as far as I can tell. So that'll filter a bunch of folks out who just wanted to watch movies in SD on their existing sets, and also have a good interface for iTunes and Photos. Poop on us, apparently. From a technical standpoint, I can see why they wanted to only support progressive devices (or progressive signals at least with hardware adding 3:2 pulldown to take the 24p to 60p or 60i)

-it has a USB port for....what? Direct connect? More HD space? I could certainly see running out of room for the stuff I'd want stashed on it. While your boot drive on your primary linked computer is the real depository for all your content - but it'd be nice to be able to plug in a USB drive with ALLLLL of your stuff - and for power users, I see them exceeding 40 GB FAST - I have 20 GB of pictures on my laptop already, however many older ones, 50 GB of MP3/AAC files, 10 GB of purchased movies and TV shows....that's 80 GB already, twice the capacity of this device, and I haven't seriously started buying or converting video content yet

Speaking of video content, what formats does it support? Obviously encrypted H.264, as well as unencrypted H.264, and that's all they are listing for now. So playing your DVDs from your computer to stream the data to the Apple TV is NOT an option...because Apple wants you buying THEIR versions of the movies!

-Somebody once asked me if I thought Apple would add DVR capabilities - not on their life - Apple wants to sell you shows for $2-4 a pop, not let you record them for free...

-and I wonder if they will ever offer a way to download directly to the Apple TV, without a Mac or PC involved? Will they ever offer an IPTV or other streaming solution, or is it forever just a media extender? It is sort of inbetween since it has that 40GB drive as a cache.

-speaking of which, whatcha wanna bet that you can't copy files off of the Apple TV, even if you shagged your drive with all your source material on it?

-uses Apple Remote, same as for laptops and iPods...and for this usage, it strikes me as kinda lame/thin on buttons and features - hey, will there be an iPhone app to use the iPhone as a remote for the apple tv? THAT would be cool!

-and speaking of iPhone, can you stream content from iPhone to the Apple TV directly with no other devices included? Maybe just a WiFi router? Or dock it and direct connect it over USB?

-no A/V cables provided - get your own (kinda lame)

-I mis-stated content capacity earlier based on live commentary from the keynote - it'll hold up to 50 hours of STANDARD DEF content

-and when they DO get high def content, how long to download? Because clearly, you have to wait until it is all the way there before you can start to watch it. In theory, Apple could get clever with some progressive download stuff to let you start watching before it is all downloaded, streaming the already downloaded portion while writing the incoming stuff to disk.

So what does this mean for indies?

Not much for quite some time. Due to the limited audience this will have, straight up DVDs are going to be your best distribution option for quite some time. Get'em on Amazon and Netflix and that's about the broadest first step you can do on your own without a "real" distributor. But that's another rant.

: )

So again, back to the "Is it worth it?" question, after a few hours reflection - it all depends on what you see as the primary value of the device:

If you see it as strictly a movie player, then DVDs are a MUCH better option.

If you are fully into watching TV shows you missed, and don't have a DVR or didn't record them, then it has some value, but $300 is a stretch.

If you see it as a premium iTunes interface to get your audio into the living room and let you use a big screen as the interface and let you use a remote, suddenly it gains a LOT of value,especially compared to the other options on the market (as they don't play back purchased iTunes content usually). And on top of that, you can see your pictures, podcasts, and download movies? That's how this device will have to be marketed to be successful, or perceived as valid/viable.

-Mike

UPDATE - yet more further thoughts - but after thinking about it a bit more, this product is really just a media extender - it just lets you do your iTunes thang at a distance, with a widescreen TV interface. An interesting experiment I need to try - if I set up one of my old G4s as a media server, and use my Macbook (without having to store ALL of my media on it) as the interface to the TV, can I not get all the functionality of Apple TV? And get that today? I have an s-video adaptor for my Macbook already, and it has Front Row, the basis upon which the Apple TV UI is built...wanna bet the Front Row experience in Leopard is going to pretty much match what we get here? Come to think of it, that dual 2.0 GHz G5 doesn't do much these days...I could just use that, with the Front Row patch, and I have a 17 button IR remote I could configure...

AppleInsider | Macworld: High-quality photos of Apple TV and software interface

-Paramount added about 100 movies, but not their latest
Comments:
Wow, Mike. I usually agree with your comments, but think you are WAY off on this one.

While people always give the device (ipod) the credit, what has really been the most incredible, groundbreaking thing in the past years is actually iTunes...an all new digital distribution network. If it wasn't so well done, iPods would not have taken off the way they have. Now, you add in audio books, podcasts, etc, etc and it's becoming an all inclusive media distributor. They have done very well with tv shows, but have 2 major markets are left to conquer with iTunes: movies and publishing.

-Not many people (frequent travelers excluded) want to watch a full movie on a phone or iPod. Not many people want to watch it on a computer. So, it leaves us with our tv's. Once apple shows it's success, all the studios will sign on and the library will be current and huge. No more waiting for Netflix...no more going to the store to get a DVD. Is it convenient? Absolutely. Will the quality be as good? Probably comparable to the MP3 compared to CD compared to Vinyl. It doesn't mater...convenience wins.

-The publishing market will be Apple's next biggie. Again, they are in the absolute perfect position to put downloadable, paperless subscriptions to every magazine out there as well as every book published. Music=iPod, Shows/Movies=AppleTV, Books/Magazines=? I would guess down the road, Apple will innovate a groundbreaking tablet. (Yes, I've seen the articles where Jobs dismisses them...just like he did living room appliances and phones years earlier.) Matter of fact, there were rumours recently that Apple had a HUGE sitdown with a major publishing company about putting their entire library of books up on iTunes. This will happen, but probably not for a while. Once it does, Apple will have an enormous distribution network in place for nearly all media...and they will rule the world. :-)

So, to wrap up, they needed a device to push the distribution of Shows/Movies. I think AppleTV is a good one. I would love for it some day to be built into a TV. I think right now, it is still in the realm of geeks buying it rather than general people...

I personally hope they sell a bazillion so more studios will sign on...thanks! KW
 
For only $150 (or less) more you can get an intel core solo mac mini on ebay.

There, now you have the AppleTV AND a computer! Using the DVI out you can get higher resolutions than the AppleTV. If you have a Std Def TV there are adapters for that as well. You are not limited to iTunes content. If you have a media server stored somewhere else in the house, you can stream from that, and it doesn't HAVE to be some box running iTunes! Oh, and you can web surf, and send email, and burn DVDs, etc. And you have front row, etc., etc.

SOOO much more for only $150 more.

OR, you can spend LESS than the $300 asking price, and get an old XBOX, have someone mod it, and put XBMC on there, and get pretty much everything that the AppleTV has as well... Plus original xbox gaming.
 
Anonymous - under $150? Really? Send a link - I'm (pleasantly) surprised if it is indeed that inexpensive.

How much RAM might you need to add to get the functionality we're talking about?

As for the modded Xbox - egads, man, who but the most hardcore geek is going to do that? And once done, do you have remote functionality, streaming from your computer, and playback of your freebie and purchased digital content?

First anonymous - yeah, I hope that they sell a bunch too!
 
I'll probably get one because it has component out, and my current TV has no DVI/HDMI/VGA, so a Mac mini is out as a media server unless I just go s-video which kind of bugs me.

Strangely the UK Apple site has a slightly different version of the spec, which does not list 720p as one of the formats it can play. Anybody have any idea why that might be? Is the UK model different/crippled? Can't see why it would be.

From a business point of view I wish it could play 720p @ 25fps (even the US site only says 24fps) as I could use that as an incentive to get more clients to migrate to HD (especially when I have a Red!) It would be nice to say "all you need to play this at HD rez on the plasma in your reception or on your exhibition stand is a £200 box" much cheaper than a Blue Ray player!

In terms of the 25/24 fps thing, I can always edit at 25 fps, then slow the final master to 24fps and encode as H264. Don't think anyone would ever notice the difference. That's what I do when I'm asked to provide NTSC DVDs from PAL edits (assuming they're progressive, pretty much all clients want "film look").

Nick
 
Stupid thing only plays mpeg4 though. It should be as extensible as quicktime and play any movie on your system that quicktime will play, and if you've added new codecs, like Divx to quicktime, then it should play them too. It means that to play any media on my hard drive, unless it's re-convert time. Not fun at all. Silly. Prediction = flop.
 
What the product is is a video iPod that happens to output high definition to your TV, and syncs wirelessly instead of with a dock.

If the 720p movies show up in the iTunes store, I'm there.
 
Hi, I've got my Macbook Pro hooked up to my Samsung HD LCD over VGA. I interface to it using the apple remote, bluetooth mouse, and bluetooth keyboard, so no need for apple TV. And I can surf the web, play back ANY video or music content, use any player I want (like VLC), do photos, etc. Point is, with the new breed of hd lcds coming with computer inputs out of the box, and being high resolution, progressive digital displays, it is super easy to make your own advanced Apple TV. swap out my mac book pro for a dedicated intel mac mini, add a firewire HD to the mini for media storage and there you go. My vote is for a "osx media center" mac mini with bluetooth mouse, keyboard, and apple remote. Sorry Apple TV, you are outdated before you even came to market.

-John Waterman
 
as i've said before, they need to make a modified H.264 codec that allows them to send you a 720p file, but you could easily extract a 640x480ish file, or a 320x240ish file from it. the file size wouldn't be much bigger, it'd just be for each frame (or block of frames?) there'd be a low quality version that then has a better quality version attached, similar to progressive internet downloading of a GIF, or thumbnails for a JPEG. that way you only download a 720p file, but if you copy it to an ipod, it'll auto format it for your choice of 640 or 320 wide.
 
I have to agree with Graeme on this one I think it will flop. If you are really into TV you already have a DVR of some sort and if you want to watch a movie with all that convenience then you'll use On Demand... Apple is not offering any content that I don't already have access to. Also Itunes/Apple aren't small guy friendly so that leaves indies out in the cold, maybe if they offered a way for indies to get stuff out there then people might like the idea of access new content and buy one.
I don't think I would throw away a SD TV to watch mpeg4 media in HD. Low Res digital crap in Hi Res digital crap out...

NPLU
 
I think Apple had two basic choices when designing a set-top box: 1) put a Mac on your TV or 2) create a glorified Airport Express Modem that allows you to extend the digital hub (i.e. your existing Mac/ iTunes) to the living room. They chose the later for several reasons. First, do we really want to have a wire-less keyboard and trackpad in the living room? Apple's (and certainly Steve's) answer is clearly no. and that is why we have the five-button wireless remote and Front Row. Second, anyone who buys this product is already going to have a Mac or a PC somewhere in the house with internet access (probably broadband). So you have to ask: Why duplicate that entire setup just to get media to the TV? Why not just do the bare minumum that you need to do to get media to the display device. This option creates a cheaper device that more people are likely to adopt. Hence, Apple TV.

Unless I'm missing something here, I think the real opportunity of Apple TV may be overlooked by Apple -- at least it is in their current marketing materials. And here it is: What a device like Apple TV does is empower anyone in the world to become a television broadcaster.

Why is it that in the age of internet 2.0 and RSS I still can't produce my own tv show (in my garage) and broadcast it to millions of TV viewers around the world? We have the low cost video acquisition and editing tools. We have websites and RSS. So, I can easily create a 'podcast' to push (sort of) my show to subscribers. But those subscribers can't watch my show on their TV! So that last step is the one link that's missing and preventing me from getting my show onto your TV.

Apple TV gives us the possibility of closing that gap. But the question remains: will Apple allow it? Their video requirements for Apple TV are curiously restrictive. As Graeme says, this device should obviously play anything QuickTime (as should an iPod btw). And Apple's marketing materials for Apple TV seem to be geared toward the idea of selling you downloaded material from the iTunes store.

Forget about the iTunes content. I want to watch things like 'Mike's HD for Indies' weekly video digest. And I don't want to watch that show at my workstation -- that's where I WORK! I want to watch it on my TV where I relax to enjoy something informative or entertaining.

And forget Indie movie making. I want to start my own indie TV studio and broadcast homegrown material right to your TV from my garage. And I think millions of people would want to do the same if they could (ala YouTube, yet better quality).

TiVo could be doing this right now. Yet, unbelievably, TiVo intentionally prevents users from entering RSS feeds that are not 'approved' by TiVo. That is, they only allow podcasts that are published by TiVo's "Partners" -- the people that they highlight in their 'Podcaster' menu. This is crazy. For whatever reason, they are completely squelching an incredible opportunity to become the catalyst for indie television.

Hopefully Apple won't make the same mistake with Apple TV.

John Christensen
cdesign@airmail.net
 
Mike, you misread my post. I did not say "$150" I said "$150 (or less) more" the operative word is more. This means that the AppleTV is $300. You can get a core solo Mac Mini for $450 or less.

You will not need to add ANY ram. The Mac Minis come with 512MB ram minimum. Think about it, its a damned streaming device! How much ram is realy needed to view a video stream? On the receiving end (the Mac Mini or Apple TV) this is a lightweight task these days. You are only going to receive 1 stream at a time (can you watch two movies w/ audio simultanousely?). The most intensive stuff is handled by the CPU & video card which are more than good enough, and the HDD is fast enough to cache streaming video content. The weak link in the chain is going to be the network throughput, esp. if streaming over wifi. A core solo Mac Mini, out of the box can handle all of the same tasks as an AppleTV with EASE and still do a WHOLE lot more, and all for only $150 more. The only negative is no HDMI suport, only DVI (or s-vid, or composite). The Mac Mini can stream from almost anything on the network, even if the source is NOT running iTunes. The way many people have their media stuff setup, they have a single media server with a ton of HDD space, and the movies, mp3s, etc. stored on that server's filesystem, and shared out on the network, usually via CFS/NFS/SAMBA. This way the MacMini can mount that remote drive. Looks like the streamed movies are local on your Mac, no iTunes needed!

Surf the web? Check!
Burn DVDs? Check!
Get email? Check!
1080p? Check!
MPEG-4? Check!
DivX? Check!
Xvid? check!
DVD Images? Check!
WMA? Check!
iTunes suport? Check!
AVI? Check!
Real Media? Check!
etc. You get the idea.

It is SOOOO much more flexible both in terms of what the AppleTV is meant for, and other tasks as well (I can't read HD4Indies from an Apple TV, but I can from a Mac Mini on my TV). If the AppleTV is worth the $300, then using a MacMini for the same purpose gives you far more than $150 extra in value!

Can the Apple TV stream XMonline content? Internet Radio? Watch missed NBC shows that they stream online only? Watch YouTube content?

All that the Apple TV is is an iTunes appliance. That's it. It's not a DVR, its not a media convergence device, it's not even a media stream receiver! Its an iTunes stream receiver! It's very limited.

Now, as for the Xbox, it doesn't take a hardcore geek to do it. No soldering required these days. It's not for everyone, but if you can replace a CPU and a hard drive on a PC and install an OS, then you can mod an xbox with little trouble.

Then, all that's left is to install a shell (XBMC), and set up your network (easier than on XP, that's for sure).

And when it's done, you connect it to a network via 100-baseT ethernet, or into a wireless bridge or gaming adapter. Pretty much the same options as MANY other PCs.

Yes, you have remote functionality (IR or RF)
Yes, you can stream most any video format from a remote PC
Yes, you can playback freebie and purchased digital content.

You can play DVDs directly from it, INCLUDING PAL DVDs, and foreign region DVDs
You can output to Std Def or HD (via the HD kit)
You can play XBOX games
You can store media on it (how much depends on the size of the HDD that you put in it, but more than the 40Gig that AppleTV will come with, possibly by a factor of 10!)
You can play MAME on it
You can play NES/SNES/N64 games on it (with emulators)
Go from off to movie playing in under 1 minute

Look into XBMC and see what it can do (X Box Media Center)

If you look into it, you'll see that it's not just for geeks anymore!
 
I've been on the fence about this thing since the announcement. I considered the whole mac mini thing, but have 3 issues with it:

1. It's expensive - $599 for a mini, plus $250 for a big external drive, plus $149 for an eye tv -- $998!! Yes, it does a lot more, but it's probably overkill.

2. It's TV - I don't want to use a keyboard & mouse - that's why I don't watch movies on my macbook pro as it is. Right now I just plug dvi into my hdtv, but it's a pain. Plus, I'd like to watch content without my machine being on.

3. While the mini supports HD (via DVI) it does NOT support HDCP. Why should I care? I think the only way to really sell movies to the mass market is to make them cheap ($5-$6 each) or make them rentals (for $3). Movie rentals (even SD rentals, but definitely HD) will require HDCP -- this way the apple TV is a closed system, and there's no risk of piracy (or at least not as much). I'd LOVE to get rentals directly to my TV, and I think this will sell people on itunes movie downloads. All the major complaints - download times, quality, DRM will mean nothing compared to the convenience of to your TV rentals (as long as the price is reasonable).

So what the hell. $300 isn't outrageous - most other media extenders cost nearly that much. I'll pay a little apple tax for a great UI, and video rentals down the road.

DrDuuude!
d
 
It's bad enough that you have to pay to watch movies again and again. Now someone is trying to sell you a desktop device to charge you more money to get basically the equivalent of cable TV. It's not like most consumers have a lot of computers sitting around with WIFI and a bunch of iTune movies that they want to watch in their media room anyway? So what's the point? It's a toy for Apple geeks who love Apple.

I have many Macs, old ones and newer ones. I don't have a ipod or other Apple player, although I know they are popular. I have a need to play a lot of movies, yes old burned DVD movies that are from rare laserdisks. I didn't burn them using my G4 laptop, becuase it's too slow. I don't have 5 hours to software encrypt each DVD. I burned them using a Sony HD DVD recorder. Using the 120 gig HD on it, I can store up to 40 movies easily at one time on the HD and edit out the A/B change from Laserdisk. And then burn a DVD in 8x time once it's been recorded and titled.

I want and thought of creating a nice user interface for a mac mini to give my mother a media center that could be controlled by a remote. I have about 150 movies from laserdisk that are old movies. I'd like to have them as a movie jukebox digitally stored on a 500 gig drive or larger set of drives. That way i could have a powerpoint presentation show the movie posters and content and have links to play the movies. My own interface, even including movie information for her to surf with a remote control and decide which movie she wants to see and read up about it if she wishes while browsing.

Can the Apple TV do this? Nope. Can it play any DVD without ripping it to an inferior format which will take time? Nope. It's just a settop box. Like buying a $300 version of a slide viewer for your giant screen TV.

I actually bought a 400 disk carasel Sony DVD player and loaded the "burned" copies of my legally owned Laserdisks and other legally owned DVD movies in it. My older parents hated the controls and didn't know how to use it. So we are left with an almost 400 disk classical and old musical library of movies, which is our "poor mans" replacement for cable/TNT, etc. But the beef is, the old folks have to spend time searching and determining which movie they will watch like strolling through the corner store. It takes time for them and one of them is kind of bed ridden, or chair ridden. And cannot really look through the DVD's. So it's a pain and I'd like to have technology that is simple and easy to use, but is also flexible.

If I want an Apple version of a Comcast cable box, and pay them $300 before getting any content, well I'll give Apple a call.

You'd think they'd want to put out really nice revolutionary devices, but unfortunately their future is tied to the anti-piracy league and of course they are just getting co-operation from these media companies, by providing royalties and becoming a sales and rental company. Is Apple a rental and sales company or a computer manufacturer? They can make more profit selling iTunes, than computers, so they have lost the computer manufacturer mantle. It's a sign of the changing times, and of course to survive they need to find a profit channel that Microsoft won't beat them out of.

Unfortunately Apple has lost to Microsoft and that's apparent. The Dual core Intel platform speaks more to me of this fact. They are now just a clone maker with an OS-X option. Hopefully they'll continue to sell enough stuff to keep an alternate OS out there and some proprietary family stuff and keep some option out there beside the Microsoft XP, etc crap.
 
DrDuuuude:

3) Interesting point. I guess we will see how that pans out

2) Mac Mini has the same remote that the AppleTV has. Hit the button and launch front row and you have the same control as with the Apple TV. If you want to limit yourself to the same experience as the AppleTV, with the remote on a mini, you can get it. Use the Keybd/mouse if you want MORE than what the AppleTV gives you

1) $250 for an external drive... Umm the ApleTV drive is the same size as the stock Mac Mini I believe (maybe the minis is more?), so this is a mot point. If you spend that on the Mac Mini, you'd have to spend it on the AppleTV too. It's not like the Apple TV is coming with this huge HDD. Same goes for the EyeTV. Th3e AppleTV has no DVR capability. So you spend the money for that for the mini, cool. Then you'd have to spend that same money to get the same functionality on the appleTV. Oh wait, since its not a full OS, you CAN'T install an EyeTV on the AppleTV. So this is another area where you can expand the Mini's capabilities to far beyond the AppleTV's.

Again you can find a Core Solo Mac Mini in excellent shape for around $450. This, once again, brings us back to that same $150 price difference.

AppleTV? No Thanks, I'll take a Mini instead.
 
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