HD For Indies

UPDATE - I BOUGHT ONE! SCROLL DOWN TO "BOUGHT ONE!" UPDATE FOR DETAILS

Hey all -

So It Is Time for me to buy an HDTV. Other than the studio gear, I don't have one.

Rational Boy that I am, I decided to go about this methodically.

My earlier rough thoughts had been that I'd wait for a true 1080p set to get down to about $2000 that had multiple HDMI w/HDCP ports, and good uprezzing capabilities for DVDs (if a new DVD player didn't have it). Then I started reading about 120 Hz sets and thought I'd want that feature as well. Then I read about HDMI v1.3 and thought that might be a nice feature to have as well. As for size? I hadn't thought about it too much. This starts out semi-organized and devolves into my notes to myself as I still don't have an answer yet:

More thoughts on what I want:
-bright
-contrasty
-excellent black levels
-do I really want 1080p? NO by typical viewing distance logistics, YES if I want to do critical evaluations on it
-no/minimal smear/lag/rainbow fringing
-HDMI w/HDCP
-LOTS of inputs
-HDMI v1.3?
-96 or 120 Hz?
-good SDTV performance
-good backlit remote (or a 3rd party good universal remote)
-DVI input better than VGA input for computer usage, and FULL SCREEN not pixel for pixel
-built in tuner

plasma/LCD/RPTV?

plasmas suffer in direct light and have reflections (not so worried about burn-in issues) - so out?
LCDs are good but get pricey for size/res I want - so maybe
RPTVs - DLP typically better than LCoS (SXRD/DiLA) are close but not as good for contrast
LCDs are workst contrast of the bunch

Step One: How much?

The classic limiter: budget. I've semi-arbitrarily decided $2500 is as much as I'm willing to spend - I'll still need to be buying some new media furniture for my living room, and any HDTV receiver/tuner/set-top box/Blu-ray/HD-DVD/etc. that I might want to get, which is a whole other bailiwick.

In the end, that is just as much as I wanted to spend.

Step Two: How Big?

Referring to this chart I mentioned the other week, at my viewing distance (10 or 11 feet), SMPTE & THX would recommend a screen size of about 65 to 98 inches. Uh huh, not happening. In my budget level, I'm looking at sets no larger than 46" for LCDs and 50 or maybe 55" for plasma HDTVs, or up to 62" for rear projection HDTVs (from a quick skim of B&H's website).

So that right there rules out fitting into the recommended math. A 50" set is around 4 feet wide. That's BIG, and can dominate a room.

While the viable range I can afford falls into the 37-55" range, I'm guessing I'll be centering in on a 40-46 inch set to get good contrast and image quality.

Step Three: What Resolution?

Now, interestingly, there's another chart that is highly informative. If you look at the horizontal line for 10 foot viewing distance, and cross that with the size of screen I can afford, surprise! If I were to get the biggest possible set, and it had 1280x720 panel resolution, and I my glasses/contacts corrected my vision to 20/20, and I leaned forward a bit, THEN and ONLY then should I be able in theory to see the full benefit of a 1280x720 (720p) resolution signal & image. If you look at that chart, there are some hard lines (where benefit of 480/720/1080/1440p is fully visible), and some soft transitional zones (the areas between). At a viewing distance of 10 feet, a 36 inch set lets you see all the resolution of a 480p signal (like a DVD). I presently have a 32 4:3 Sony TV set, and watching DVDs, if offers me about a 30" 16:9 area. So in theory, I'm not even ABLE to see all the clarity/benefit of my DVDs as I'm presently set up....if my TV even showed all the resolution.

If I were to get a 37" HDTV, at my viewing distance, I'd barely (if at all) be able (in theory) to see the difference between a 480p and a 720p signal.

If I get a 46-50" set, I'd be able to tell the difference between that and standard def, but I wouldn't be able to eyeball all the resolution of a 720p signal. Hmm....therefore, the typical 1368x768 panel resolution would be fully adequate for my viewing conditions, provided it is bright enough and contrasty enough. This is probably why most folks are happy with their HDTVs and standard definition DVDs - it looks damn good on their sets from their usual viewing distances. And at ten foot viewing distances, with 20/20 vision, you'd need a nearly 60" set to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p signal resolution, and a whoping 78" (that's six and a half FEET diagonally) set to see ALL the detail in a 1080p signal. And who wants to dominate their room with a 6 1/2 foot TV set?

So I'm so NOT going to sweat waiting for a 1080p set to come into my price/size range...because I'd have to get a room dominating monster to do so.

===============

I've also been idly considering getting a screen and a projector for watching movies in my bedroom - my laundry room is right behind my bedroom and I could cut a glass port into the wall to isolate projector noise, and I have a perfect spot on my wall to install a pull-down screen that would cover the windows. Fun as it would be, is this something I'd really want to do in my bedroom?

I'm considering the Sony KDS-60A2000 at the moment, some pros/cons:
-60" screen
-3xSXRD, no spinning color wheel issues
-CineMotion (aka 3:2 pulldown) worked spottily at best (uh oh)
-1080p60 yes GOOD, 1080p24 NO, BOOO!!!!!
-2 HDMI inputs (not v1.3 I'd bet)
-2 component inputs
-s-video/composite
-VGA (1366x768 max - what happened to 1920x1080????)
-some trouble with SD material, 3:2 pulldown in particular, and some detailing issues
-VGA mode did NOT fill screen from computer
-HDMI to DVI adaptor DID do 1920x1080 though, BUT overscanned significantly - no Start toolbar, for instance
-

the KDS-R60XBR2 has more inputs, but still has some SD issues - VERY important to figure out where your SD signal is coming from - I'll probably need to get a new DVD player with upconversion capability and HDMI outputs
-that given, which one? With HQV or Faroudha upscale chip, right?
-
DO THE PROCESSING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO ACTUALLY MATTER FOR ME?

what else to consider that I can afford?

-the 50" version of the cheaper Sony

--that Mitsubishi with DVI input Carlton dude recommended?

-do I really WANT a 50"+ set in my living room?

-if I go 60", that is HUGE - but is it in the "can see all res" category yet? If rear projection rather than direct pixels, won't that be soft as compared to direct pixels of an LCD?

-the quest continues - PLEASE DO share your thoughts etc. - depending on how close the screen is (wall mount or RPTV on pedestal) my viewing distance is about 9 1/2 to 11 feet.

DISCUSS!

-mike

UPDATE 3pm:

-thanks for all the feedback so far, let me clarify my viewing situation: it is in my living room, which has a LOT of windows and is NOT darkable during the day. Also, I have studio gear, this is for living room enjoyment. I already have 32" SDTV, so I'm looking to make a big improvement from that.

-some folks are saying this is a bad time to buy - with prices constantly coming down, when IS a good time? Quality and price are both improving dramatically, is it going to be like computers, in that waiting 6 months will ALWAYS net a better result? I've got the Mad Cash sitting around now, dunno if I still will months down the road

-and for the reasons to wait - how far off are they?

I could either:
-pony up serious dough and get something good that would be cheaper and as good later
-get a "hold me over" unit in the meantime and upgrade down the road
-or not buy and wait

Thoughts? I'm used to computers always improving and you buy when you need - I have no specific need at the moment, but I've been waiting quite a while already

-mike

UPDATE: BOUGHT ONE!

Sometimes, you're just ready to BUY STUFF.

After meaning to get an HDTV for, oh, a coupla years now, I spent 3 or 4 hours reading and researching yesterday. After finishing some work, I drove out to Fry's and looked at a bunch of what they had out there (I have a gift certificate from there to offset some of the cost, so I'm inclined to buy from them, "free money" and all). I took some notes, compared them to what I'd found from online reviews (cnet.com was pretty helpful, but many reviews were getting a bit long in the tooth).

Crossing cnet's recommendations with what they had out there, the Sony KDS-60A2000 started looking pretty good - with the same core imaging capabilities as the top rated and $1500 more expensive 60" XBR2 model, I was happy with it. There's some nitpicky differences in the SD performance, but since I'm going to upconvert my DVDs anyway (more on that in a minute), I'm not so concerned about that.

I took my notes back home, did some more online research to make sure I wasn't missing any models worth looking at, and to make sure the prices I was finding were reasonable enough.

Got home, more research. The Sony was holding up fairly well. ALL HDTVs have some issues...or at least all the ones under $2500 I was looking at did - there's no such thing as a Perfect HDTV in this price range.

I did end up changing my mind and deciding to get a 1080p capable unit, even though at that size and viewing distance I probably can't eyeball the difference between 1080 & 768 pixels of imagery, I told myself it was because I'd be evaluating HD signals on it (work related, ya know) that I'd be better off with the straight, pixel for pixel, 1080p res. Or I just wanted 1080p, because I'm a victim of marketing and a quality snob - I don't know which...entirely.

Other options:

The $400 stand from Sony? Man, $400 is lot of money for some metal and glass whose job is to SIT THERE. So I didn't buy it...yet. I'm going to research alternatives tomorrow. This TV is ridiculously huge, so I need a big piece of furniture to sit it on. And it will also need to house, at the very least, my receiver and new DVD player - the CD changer (never use it), the VHS (hahahahaaaaa......that's a good one, I kill me...), and the old DVD player probably won't be included in this game.

A definite issue - getting off axis up or down has a quick and DRAMATIC effect on brightness, so definitely need to have the HDTV at proper height - ideally my face at same height as center of screen when I'm sitting down (more measuring tape games to be played)

Further digging - the same stand can be found online for $250 not $400...but ground shipping starts at $80-$100...so $50 to wait a week or more...hmm...just paying for it locally and bringing it home could be way to go.

I skipped the extended warranty/coverage action, mostly based on The Simpson's episode where Homer is getting the crayon pounded into his brain further to re-dummify and he says "Extended warranty? How can I lose!" and Moe says "Almost there...just one more...." It was $300 I think for five years, and a new bulb is MSRP for $250. If there's a problem, somebody will come out to fix it. Without it, you're on your own with Sony, and of course he didn't say what their policy is.

So now the question is what DVD player?

A little research and I found a top rated upconverting DVD player that outputs 1080p not 1080i - but for only about $150 more, I could get the Toshiba HDA2 HD-DVD player and play REAL HD discs - but that unit is 1080i, not 1080p. Sigh....will it make a meaninful difference? I'm thinking not. I have hundreds of DVDs, but I don't buy anymore, I'm happy with Netflix.

So chime in - $230 Oppo DV981HD killer 1080p uprezzing DVD player, or $375 Toshiba HDA2 honest-to-goodness HD-DVD player that also upconverts DVDs to 1080i?

Consider this a polll...but remember budget is getting TIGHT...Octo-Mac Pros may be getting announced tomorrow, and I just dropped about 2 grand on this thing...

updated an hour later - digging around, 3 of 4 stores I've found list it as not available yet, and one place lists it as in stock....I sooooo don't trust "in stock" notifications online, and with a fairly new product, this smells iffy. For $150 more, I can DEFINITELY get an HDA2, and pronto (they've been shipping for weeks). While I'd like to wait for the HD-A20 (which DOES have 1080p output), it ships "Spring 2007) which could be May and I'm tired of waiting. When it is time to buy, I'm all about new-ish tech that the price has dropped some already. The $500 list of the HDA2 is actually under $400 if you dig around.

Next up - getting an HD signal - I'm on the phone waiting to hear what my options are with Time Warner Cable (already have digital cable with them)...then I gave up after holding half an hour (at 11pm at night - how busy can they be!)

-mike

Labels: HDTV, original