HD For Indies

Overall let me summarize:

before we start, here's my first impressions from the other day with more details on the new accessories)

I'm happy with how low the prices are on all the Red accessories - as professional level gear, this stuff is VERY inexpensive.

There's even been an improvement - the battery charger is only $550, not $750 - Jim says it was a pricing mistake. Post-announcement correction, misquoted price, "whatevs" - a welcome change.

UPDATE - but then the Red Arm & extension cables were removed from the LCD - compare the original (Google cached) to the current one. So that's a further $375 reduction in value to the customer. The specs do keep changing.

I originally misunderstood the purpose of the CF Flash module - I thought it was for settings and stills, pulled out and made optional. But that's the SD module, not the CF module, and the SD module IS included with the camera. That, on top of the lack of included battery, LCD, and what I understood to be Red Flash made me think that the price point was held by stripping off parts and making them cost added options, and that made me cranky.

I was then further dissapointed that the "extra love" we'd been hearing noises about was basically just going to get us back to where our expectations started.

I think this boils down to the following good news/bad news scenario:

GOOD NEWS: The camera is everything promised, and more. You get 4K compressed recording onboard, which didn't exist when the original $17.5K price point was announced. As for Red Flash, there's now three kinds, take your pick. You get get your Redcine for free, for now an open license for your own use on as many machines as you want. Instead of a 3.5" flip-out LCD, you get a 5.6" 1024x600 one that can mount anywhere on the camera. Instead of a small embedded/internal battery, you get a full size professional one. As a reservation holder, you get a $2500 credit to pick the accessories of your choice.

BAD NEWS: Battery not included (but is bigger/better than originally planned). LCD not included (but again, bigger/better than originally planned). Red Flash module not included (but there's three or four to choose from). That $2500 roughly catches you up to where you thought you were starting - so instead of a bonus prize, you get what you thought you were already getting. Flippantly, let me say its exciting in the same way a tax refund is - "Hooray! I got my own...money..back. Hmm."

In retrospect, it is a little more complicated than "So did we get the camera promised at the same price point or didn't we?" - I think the exact answer is now "You get more camera than was originally proposed at that $17,500 price point, with more features and better options than originally proposed. But it is taking a little longer, early units will not be feature complete for a few months yet, and the price has effectively gone up a bit. BUT, if you're a reservation holder, you're going to pretty much get what you expected for the same size check."

I think the discrepancy arose when we'd expected camera/battery/LCD and THEN some extra goodies on top of that for being reservation holders. Instead, we got camera/battery/LCD. I'd mentally incorporated all the improvements in features and expected the price point to remain exactly the same.

It has taken some time to digest all this news and come up with a cogent analysis.

I still love the camera and think it is Sliced Bread 2.0 as far as cameras go in terms of what I'd want, delivering far more features than I could expect from any other company at this price point - to the extent that I'm buying one to rent out - I just was a little bummed at the lack of extras included for reservation holders. But, in my constantly contrarian brain, I DID get extras - the price (and feature set) has gone up a bit overall, and the effective price has gone up a bit from initial announcement to now - which isn't that big a shock in this market anyway. In an email exchange, somebody put it nicely in perspective, saying something like "OK, wisenheimer - would you rather have the 3.5" flipout LCD and the small internal consumer style battery for your Red One? Or would you rather pay a bit more for a much bigger & higher res screen and a bigger and better battery?" Well, yeah - I probably would.

But in looking back, they DID "optionize" just about everything they could in order to hold the price point.

Other Red Stuff of Interest: I've been catching up on Reduser.net posts

WEIGHT: current dev builds way nearly 9 pounds for just the camera, they are going to try to slim it from there. Eek - that's a more than 25% increase from the original 7 pound estimate.

RGB RECORDING DELAY: no RGB recording mode for a couple of months or so

SHIPPING SCHEDULE: startup production quantities lower than anticipated, but should still ship all cameras by Sept/Oct, timetable for serial number release schedule at NAB


Evin Grant guessing about 1080p24 RGB data rates: (which may be based on my own guesses I'd previously posted here, which are known to be a bit off on the RGB stuff)
A good guess would be about 18.15MBs or 1.06GB per minute at 24FPS.
So from that wou can figure...
RedDrive- 320GB (296GB Formated)= 278 minutes
Red Ram- 64GB= 60 minutes
Red Flash 8GB CF card= 7 Min 31 Sec
Red Flash 32GB onboard= 30 minutes

READER COMMENTS ON PRICE CHANGES: Reduser.net poster Andrew put it well: "Hey, in a few month investment of $1000 did bring you the return of $2,500.
250% gain, with 110% money back guarantee, I didn’t see this one since a long time."

Steve Gibby of Cut4 framed it from the pro's perspective:: "I think the ones who have complained about the RED prices are invariably those who are moving up from the prosumer world of production. They're used to prosumer price levels and they now have sticker shock at what a professional camera system costs. Ironically, the longtime professionals who know what pro-level camera systems cost, are stoked with RED prices because they know the RED prices are way below the norm for pro level gear.
...
The end result since NAB 2006: the price to performance ratio of the RED One camera system has become even more dynamic, with many added features, and a slight increase in price.
...
If you’re moving up from the prosumer world count yourself lucky to now have tools available to you, at a stunning price/performance ratio, that all of us longtime pros have been dreaming about for our entire careers."

...and that nails it pretty damn well.

Jim Jannard's comment on price changes:: "Again... the original LCD was a flip-out 3.5' and the battery was a proprietary RED on-camera type like an HVX. They now are professional grade. A 5.6' hi-rez LCD and a V-lock battery (open) system. If these were offered as a $400 upgrade, everyone would have wanted them. Or should have wanted them.

Jim"

As for battery prices, another commenter said: "I have purchased at least 10 high end broadcast cameras from Panasonic, Sony, and Ikegami over the years - and not one of them came with a battery!" ...so there you go.


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Semi off topic, as for digital cinema from NYTimes:
"there are now 2,300 screens across the country with digital projectors, still a small fraction of the nation’s 37,000. The higher-quality equipment is not expected to be widely installed until 2009, when a few high-profile movies in 3D requiring digital projection (like James Cameron’s “Avatar”) are scheduled for release."

that ties into 4K finishing - nice if you can do it, certainly not necessary for all projects, not even theatrical ones. If you have toolset and/or budget to do it and want it for future usage, great.

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On ordering a camera at NAB:: "You can place an order at NAB with a fully refundable deposit." according to Jim Jannard.

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On the resolution of the LCD: "the LCD is WSVGA. -Jim" - that's 1024x600, not the 720p I'd previously erroneously reported. Oops, sorry about that.

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Rods and standards and spacing: Reduser.net - View Single Post - Rod size clarification: "We will not support Panavision standards... but will support Arri standards. An elite rental house in Holloywood has come by several times with equipment to make sure we conform to accessories already in the field. Remember that our system is modular... if we have screwed up somewhere or forgotten something, we will fix it or add it.

Jim"

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On Workflow: Red One Pipeline Diagram v1.0 - Page 14 - Reduser.net - Michael Morlan's excellent chart he keeps updating

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Latest rendering of Red One with all accessories: Battleship... - Reduser.net - fully up to date render

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Battery myths - Reduser.net - battery advice

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Pricing mistake... - Reduser.net: "Oops... we made a pricing mistake.

The charger is only $550 (not $750) and the Power Kit is $1450 (not $1650).

In our haste to post prices, we made an error. Our apologies. Changes to our website will be made shortly.

Jim"

....and that's the kind of mistake I'll take any day...

Labels: Red