Atom Feed
RSS Feed
Buy Mike Recommended
edit systems & gear
from Silverado Systems
Buy Books, Software, & More
at HD for Indies Amazon Store
Buy New Movies from
HD for Indies Amazon Store
Or, you can also support
HD4NDs by contributing
to the tip jar...
Help Support HD for Indies
RSS Feed
Buy Mike Recommended
edit systems & gear
from Silverado Systems
Buy Books, Software, & More
at HD for Indies Amazon Store
Buy New Movies from
HD for Indies Amazon Store
Or, you can also support
HD4NDs by contributing
to the tip jar...
Help Support HD for Indies
Advertisements
Great HD Links
- HD For Indies Home Page
- HD For Indies FAQ
- HD 24
- Cinematography
- Bare Feats
- 24p Entertainment
- Light Illusion (was Digital Praxis)
- OneRiver Codec Resource
- CamcorderInfo.com
- LumiereHD
- HighDef.org Info
- Understanding RAID
- Video Systems (Reviews)
- DV Film (DV=>Film)
- SonyHDVInfo.com
- Plus 8 Digital (vendor)
- Digital Cinema Society
- Texas High Def (local F900 guy)
- Creative Cow (news & forums)
- Philadelphia FCP User Group
- Los Angeles FCP User Group
- Cinema Tech
- FresHDV
- DV Info's forums
- HVX User
- Pro App Tips
- Bluesky Media - Instruction
- RedUser.net
- fxguide
- little frog in high def
- VideoMaker Learning Section
- Stu Maschwitz's ProLost
Archives
- March 2004
- April 2004
- May 2004
- June 2004
- July 2004
- August 2004
- September 2004
- October 2004
- November 2004
- December 2004
- January 2005
- February 2005
- March 2005
- April 2005
- May 2005
- June 2005
- July 2005
- August 2005
- September 2005
- October 2005
- November 2005
- December 2005
- January 2006
- February 2006
- March 2006
- April 2006
- May 2006
- June 2006
- July 2006
- August 2006
- September 2006
- October 2006
- November 2006
- December 2006
- January 2007
- February 2007
- March 2007
- April 2007
- May 2007
- June 2007
- July 2007
- August 2007
- September 2007
- October 2007
- November 2007
- December 2007
- January 2008
- February 2008
- March 2008
- April 2008
- May 2008
- June 2008
- July 2008
- August 2008
- September 2008
- November 2008
- December 2008
- January 2009
- March 2009
High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.
YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com
All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.
Thursday, April 12, 2007
Apple's iPhone delays Leopard until October, what it means for FCP
MacNN | Apple's iPhone delays Leopard until October:
From Apple: "we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned.'
The company said that while it plans to have all Leopard features completed by early June, quality control would add a few more months to the development cycle.
'We cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October,'"
I can understand how that could delay things, but they CLEARLY must have known this for months.
What vision pops to mind? Dana Carvey as the Church Lady saying "Isn't that conveeeEEEeenient?"
I'd been hearing that Leopard had LOTS of bugs as of a month or two ago and was behind schedule, and blaming it on the Popular New Thing About To Ship is a great bit of deferral - we're more willing to accept getting a better iPhone, sooner, than accept that Leopard is a huge complicated undertaking that was just buggy and late Just Because.
Interesting that Apple would choose to pull resources away from a $130 product with virtually zero manufacturing costs (R&D is expensive, but pressing discs is CHEAP!) that would be maximally distributable to their user base (everybody that has bought a capble-of-running-it Mac in the last few years) in order to finish a brand new product - Apple CLEARLY thinks there's more growth, and profit potential, in the consumer electronics space than there is in the software/computer space. And I can't say I can fault their logic.
Some were saying, when iPhone was announced, that it might steal resources (staff or dollars or both) from the Pro Apps group, where you have to hire expensive, specialty programmer teams to develop large, complex software for a relatively small group of potential users. What if you put such resources into building something less complicated but more widely applicable to the consuming public? It only makes sense for them to optimize resource allocation for optimal ROI.
So while my BS detector starts to tingle (think Spidey Sense of technology), using iPhone as a conveninent excuse to cover why it was already running late (regardless of how much staff was reallocated), it is a daunting concept to think of our professional tools (the OS in this case) languishing because Apple reallocated for consumer stuff.
As for Final Cut - two schools of thought on this one:
1.) They were already going to show now/ship later, so this isn't affecting them that much. The announcement of new OctoMacs with no new GPUs or high def optical drives the week before NAB reinforces that supposition, and hints that maybe we are in for a wait as I posited last week If Apple wants to seriously take on Avid for performance, they need to cut free of all that legacy code that has held them back or so long and optimize for the hardware platform of the present and future - the Intel platform. Apple hasn't sold a PowerPC professional Mac in quite some time now, so having software that does an extra bit of performance on the new hardware platform and requires the latest OS to do it is a gutsy move that, uh, would, um, require everybody to upgrade to new hardware/OS. While Apple has gotta love that idea, I just don't think it viable, and I'm pretty sure they don't either.
2.) It won't matter, because the new Final Cut Studio is about ready to roll - they've been working on this for a long time, the last major code effort was the port to Intel that happened last February or so, they've had LOTS of uninterrupted time to work on this. Apple won't be so radical so as to divorce a large segment of the OS and hardware Mac market in order to get a bit more performance out of the software by relying on a brand new OS. They've never done that before, and why change now. It has ALWAYS worked on the current OS, and maybe back a major version (sometimes, depending on OS release cycles), and works on current and one generation back machines. After writing that thing the other week, I don't THINK Apple would go that radical to get performance trophies at the expense of supporting the majority of the user base. While it'll probably run best on Intel Macs with latest OS, I'll betcha I get pretty good performance on my Quad Core G5 running 10.4.9 (I hope Hope HOPE so anyway). I'd get more, but not hugely, crushingly, real-world usefully more RT perfomrance an a 4 core Intel Mac Pro. And I have sneaking feeling that maybe they won't be ready to really make those 8 core Macs sing since the OS isn't truly optimized for it.
I've flipped some emails with Bruce Allen this afternoon, and editor web buddy who originally pointed out the announcement to me.
I'd said:
My bullshit detector is pinging a bit - if you steal folks for
iPhone, that shouldn't bump the release FIVE MONTHS!
Software ALWAYS lags hardware. Until you see benchmarks for shipping software/hardware you can personally lay your mitts on and afford, it can be a dicey proposiiton. Of course, I'm going to need to get into a beefy Intel Mac sooner rather than later with Redcine right around the corner...dammit. My only Intel Mac is my MacBook I'm typing on right now.
And Bruce responded:
Agreed, Mike, agreed!
It makes the 8-cores very scary to buy now - you can buy now, expecting performance to improve with Leopard... but by the time Leopard comes out, Apple might very well have released the NEXT 8-core models. This must be driving you nuts, my friend, since I think you are in the market to buy your next Mac, right?
The problem for everyone is, if you don't get an 8-core and independently benchmark RedCine on it,, who will?
...we'd have to wait on, and trust the results of, Rob & Graeme I'd bet. Fortunately, they are both honorable guys and share my utter loathing for what I consider "specsmanship." It has been said "...there are lies, damn lies, and benchmarks." The height of such endeavors I dub specsmanship, and with maximum pejorative emphasis.
Anyway, in summary:
-bummer that Leopard is delayed
-but I don't think/I hope that it won't affect next Final Cut's release
-if I haven't said it yet, the rumor of a high end, Avid tackling, 4K capable Final Cut Extreme never quite sat right with me, since Apple isn't in the ultra-niche high end business. Realtime codec/frame size mixing on a timeline? Yeah, LOTS of folks could use that daily. 4K finish? That is an ultra tiny minority of the market and doesn't make sense right now. But if they want to go nuts collaborating with Red (no idea what the working relationship really is between those two), I'm all for it, even it if isn't best use of their resources in the big picture (but GREAT for my needs!). Anyway, to announce a forthcoming package that would include the capabilities that Final Touch had, with the new asset management tools they acquired, and the next Shake, and say it'll ship "later this year" meaning next year, is the most plausible idea I've come across to scratch that Final Cut Extreme itch
-Oh, back on track - I'm kinda hoping new GPU & optical drive options would be announced on Sunday, but I'm not holding my breath - the timing would be so wacky.
-mike
From Apple: "we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned.'
The company said that while it plans to have all Leopard features completed by early June, quality control would add a few more months to the development cycle.
'We cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October,'"
I can understand how that could delay things, but they CLEARLY must have known this for months.
What vision pops to mind? Dana Carvey as the Church Lady saying "Isn't that conveeeEEEeenient?"
I'd been hearing that Leopard had LOTS of bugs as of a month or two ago and was behind schedule, and blaming it on the Popular New Thing About To Ship is a great bit of deferral - we're more willing to accept getting a better iPhone, sooner, than accept that Leopard is a huge complicated undertaking that was just buggy and late Just Because.
Interesting that Apple would choose to pull resources away from a $130 product with virtually zero manufacturing costs (R&D is expensive, but pressing discs is CHEAP!) that would be maximally distributable to their user base (everybody that has bought a capble-of-running-it Mac in the last few years) in order to finish a brand new product - Apple CLEARLY thinks there's more growth, and profit potential, in the consumer electronics space than there is in the software/computer space. And I can't say I can fault their logic.
Some were saying, when iPhone was announced, that it might steal resources (staff or dollars or both) from the Pro Apps group, where you have to hire expensive, specialty programmer teams to develop large, complex software for a relatively small group of potential users. What if you put such resources into building something less complicated but more widely applicable to the consuming public? It only makes sense for them to optimize resource allocation for optimal ROI.
So while my BS detector starts to tingle (think Spidey Sense of technology), using iPhone as a conveninent excuse to cover why it was already running late (regardless of how much staff was reallocated), it is a daunting concept to think of our professional tools (the OS in this case) languishing because Apple reallocated for consumer stuff.
As for Final Cut - two schools of thought on this one:
1.) They were already going to show now/ship later, so this isn't affecting them that much. The announcement of new OctoMacs with no new GPUs or high def optical drives the week before NAB reinforces that supposition, and hints that maybe we are in for a wait as I posited last week If Apple wants to seriously take on Avid for performance, they need to cut free of all that legacy code that has held them back or so long and optimize for the hardware platform of the present and future - the Intel platform. Apple hasn't sold a PowerPC professional Mac in quite some time now, so having software that does an extra bit of performance on the new hardware platform and requires the latest OS to do it is a gutsy move that, uh, would, um, require everybody to upgrade to new hardware/OS. While Apple has gotta love that idea, I just don't think it viable, and I'm pretty sure they don't either.
2.) It won't matter, because the new Final Cut Studio is about ready to roll - they've been working on this for a long time, the last major code effort was the port to Intel that happened last February or so, they've had LOTS of uninterrupted time to work on this. Apple won't be so radical so as to divorce a large segment of the OS and hardware Mac market in order to get a bit more performance out of the software by relying on a brand new OS. They've never done that before, and why change now. It has ALWAYS worked on the current OS, and maybe back a major version (sometimes, depending on OS release cycles), and works on current and one generation back machines. After writing that thing the other week, I don't THINK Apple would go that radical to get performance trophies at the expense of supporting the majority of the user base. While it'll probably run best on Intel Macs with latest OS, I'll betcha I get pretty good performance on my Quad Core G5 running 10.4.9 (I hope Hope HOPE so anyway). I'd get more, but not hugely, crushingly, real-world usefully more RT perfomrance an a 4 core Intel Mac Pro. And I have sneaking feeling that maybe they won't be ready to really make those 8 core Macs sing since the OS isn't truly optimized for it.
I've flipped some emails with Bruce Allen this afternoon, and editor web buddy who originally pointed out the announcement to me.
I'd said:
My bullshit detector is pinging a bit - if you steal folks for
iPhone, that shouldn't bump the release FIVE MONTHS!
Software ALWAYS lags hardware. Until you see benchmarks for shipping software/hardware you can personally lay your mitts on and afford, it can be a dicey proposiiton. Of course, I'm going to need to get into a beefy Intel Mac sooner rather than later with Redcine right around the corner...dammit. My only Intel Mac is my MacBook I'm typing on right now.
And Bruce responded:
Agreed, Mike, agreed!
It makes the 8-cores very scary to buy now - you can buy now, expecting performance to improve with Leopard... but by the time Leopard comes out, Apple might very well have released the NEXT 8-core models. This must be driving you nuts, my friend, since I think you are in the market to buy your next Mac, right?
The problem for everyone is, if you don't get an 8-core and independently benchmark RedCine on it,, who will?
...we'd have to wait on, and trust the results of, Rob & Graeme I'd bet. Fortunately, they are both honorable guys and share my utter loathing for what I consider "specsmanship." It has been said "...there are lies, damn lies, and benchmarks." The height of such endeavors I dub specsmanship, and with maximum pejorative emphasis.
Anyway, in summary:
-bummer that Leopard is delayed
-but I don't think/I hope that it won't affect next Final Cut's release
-if I haven't said it yet, the rumor of a high end, Avid tackling, 4K capable Final Cut Extreme never quite sat right with me, since Apple isn't in the ultra-niche high end business. Realtime codec/frame size mixing on a timeline? Yeah, LOTS of folks could use that daily. 4K finish? That is an ultra tiny minority of the market and doesn't make sense right now. But if they want to go nuts collaborating with Red (no idea what the working relationship really is between those two), I'm all for it, even it if isn't best use of their resources in the big picture (but GREAT for my needs!). Anyway, to announce a forthcoming package that would include the capabilities that Final Touch had, with the new asset management tools they acquired, and the next Shake, and say it'll ship "later this year" meaning next year, is the most plausible idea I've come across to scratch that Final Cut Extreme itch
-Oh, back on track - I'm kinda hoping new GPU & optical drive options would be announced on Sunday, but I'm not holding my breath - the timing would be so wacky.
-mike
Comments:
The tone of Apple's announcement is a bit different than the usual delays (see Longhorn/Vista). I'm getting a tingle too, mostly because the wording in the PR is almost casual about getting around to releasing Leopard later on.
Ideally this would allow for more third-party developers to catch-up to any unannounced features that we are all waiting to hear about at WWDC. And it will allow Apple to catch up with bugs and hopefully ship Leopard more as 10.5.1 than 10.5.0.
Leopard hasn't been fully demoed or announced anyway, so we can't be too expectant here.
I also think that even with the faster shipping hardware due to the Intel move that they wouldn't push out a major 8-core rev too fast.
I'm still PPC and will be for a while - I still want Leopard as it has been reported to enhance speed a bit on current hardware, especially with the revised Adobe apps. But I can wait - it has to work well and with things like Time Machine running in the background I'm would expect that this OS would have more QC work for the engineers at Apple.
Ideally this would allow for more third-party developers to catch-up to any unannounced features that we are all waiting to hear about at WWDC. And it will allow Apple to catch up with bugs and hopefully ship Leopard more as 10.5.1 than 10.5.0.
Leopard hasn't been fully demoed or announced anyway, so we can't be too expectant here.
I also think that even with the faster shipping hardware due to the Intel move that they wouldn't push out a major 8-core rev too fast.
I'm still PPC and will be for a while - I still want Leopard as it has been reported to enhance speed a bit on current hardware, especially with the revised Adobe apps. But I can wait - it has to work well and with things like Time Machine running in the background I'm would expect that this OS would have more QC work for the engineers at Apple.
Hey Mike,
I was one of the advocates of the Final Cut requiring Leopard.
I've now changed my mind, as both CoreImage and CoreData are in Tiger. Which are what I'm hoping are in FCS6. Leopard may improve their speed, but it won't be a restrictive requirement.
My money is on Final Cut 6 being announced at NAB and possibly shipping soon. Pheonmenon may get a demo, I hope it will...
I was one of the advocates of the Final Cut requiring Leopard.
I've now changed my mind, as both CoreImage and CoreData are in Tiger. Which are what I'm hoping are in FCS6. Leopard may improve their speed, but it won't be a restrictive requirement.
My money is on Final Cut 6 being announced at NAB and possibly shipping soon. Pheonmenon may get a demo, I hope it will...
I was going to buy a octopro until I read this over at barefeats. It seems like there is no big advantage with eight cores over four if the task requires a lot of data which editing does. But I'll wait until after NAB to make up my mind.
I still thin they'll be a release of FCP 6 soon, Apple would never make it Intel only as that would hit sales big time.
Of course it will work with RED straight away, RED needs NLE support and who better to get it into FCP than Graeme.
It's going to be a long 2 days!
Of course it will work with RED straight away, RED needs NLE support and who better to get it into FCP than Graeme.
It's going to be a long 2 days!
Wow, I wasn't expecting a Leopard delay.
Seems I have to backtrack on the FCP/leopard tie in.
I don't believe the iPhone caused the delays in Leopard that is just trying to put a positive spin on delays. While I am a fully signed up member of the OS X fan club I do fine SJ's gloating a bit of a turn off.
So we might have some good news re FCP6 during NAB itself i.e a release rather than a demo and a wait for Leopard.
Dear Apple,
Could I please have a tracker for Motion? Thanks...
Seems I have to backtrack on the FCP/leopard tie in.
I don't believe the iPhone caused the delays in Leopard that is just trying to put a positive spin on delays. While I am a fully signed up member of the OS X fan club I do fine SJ's gloating a bit of a turn off.
So we might have some good news re FCP6 during NAB itself i.e a release rather than a demo and a wait for Leopard.
Dear Apple,
Could I please have a tracker for Motion? Thanks...
Let us not forget that Apple makes money on hardware, not software. The margin is in the plastic and metal pieces.
The iPhone could well have delayed Leopard. The way I see it is, Apple HAS to release the iPhone in June. They've been really vocal on the release date and the reason for that is that people are timing their current contracts to expire shortly before the iPhone comes out. If they delay it for a few months, those people will most likely buy another contract in desperation, thus putting them out of the market for a year or so. This would be a big blow to the success of the phone.
Leopard, on the other hand, isn't so time critical because we already have Tiger and Tiger could hardly be described as broken. They could lose money from the educational crowd who want to buy a new machine with Leopard before September, but some will just bite the bullet and buy in the summer then upgrade when Leopard comes out. I think it would be more damaging to Apple's reputation to release a buggy OS than to delay it, particularly in light of the latest "Get a Mac" ads.
Post a Comment
Leopard, on the other hand, isn't so time critical because we already have Tiger and Tiger could hardly be described as broken. They could lose money from the educational crowd who want to buy a new machine with Leopard before September, but some will just bite the bullet and buy in the summer then upgrade when Leopard comes out. I think it would be more damaging to Apple's reputation to release a buggy OS than to delay it, particularly in light of the latest "Get a Mac" ads.
Links to this post:

