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High Definition Video for Independent Filmmakers
A How To Guide for Digital Filmmakers
Welcome all! This is my blog to share my latest research,
thoughts, etc. on utilizing HD for independent filmmaking.

YES, I am available for consulting
Contact me at mike@hdforindies.com

All content copyright 2004-2007 Mike Curtis.

Friday, December 28, 2007

New funding entity for indie films....flawed 

IndieMaverick.net: Filmmakers No Longer Have to Sell Their Bodies to Science to Raise Their Budgets:
"We at indiemaverick.net realised that thanks to new technologies the costs of filmmaking were dropping but there were few avenues to raise budgets of less than $1.5 million US. If you were a budding director such as Kevin Smith (Clerks) or Jim Jarmusch (Stranger than Paradise) looking to raise $50k to make your low budget feature the only options you had were friends, family or credit cards.

OK, I definitely agree with that part.

'Everyone has a home editing system and access to a camera now. It's a filmmaking revolution but the traditional ways of getting a film made haven't changed to accommodate this,' Hall says. 'You still need to raise a million dollars through a studio, production company or government body. Indiemaverick.net is looking to give those people left out of the usual funding avenues a way of raising their budget.'"

Sorta - think of it as paintbrushes and paint are cheap - but models still cost, and Oh Yeah - ya gotsta have some talent with the brush. One aspect is changing, and for certain kinds of projects (docs/reality a lot, big feature films less so) this can be a Big Deal in terms of delivered production value to the screen.

So how does it work?
Filmmakers provide their script, budget, poster and links to any previous films etc up on the website. Investors search for projects they are interested in, read the scripts, watch the previous films. When they find one they like they invest for as little as $25USD. Once the filmmakers reach their desired budget their monies are released and they go into production on their film. All profits the film makes are split 70 percent (investors) and 30 percent (producers). Indiemaverick.net takes no profit from the sale of the film. Filmmakers have total creative control over their project and can sell it wherever and to whomever they want. Indiemaverick.net does reserve the right to offer the film for download from the site once the film has completed any cinema or DVD run. Every investor receives a limited edition DVD of the film.


OK, as little as $25 at a time?


"If Indiemaverick.net was around earlier, Robert Rodriguez would not have had to offer his body for medical experiments to raise the $7000 he needed to make El Mariachi which went on to make $2 million at the box office. He could have just uploaded his script and reel to our site, sat back and waited for the money to pour in," says creator Shane T. Hall.

Ehh....sure. Not. The script was OK for El Mariachi. It was all about the production gusto and skill that made that movie. Remember, there's 3 movies: as written, as shot, as cut. Some movies are born (or, ahem, die) after the script, on the set or in post. What might have been banal on page can be brought to life by good talent. A great script can be knifed by less-than-adequate production value.

OK. So Shane's starter idea is definitely a good one - create a market for investors in smaller films.

Some of the problems:
-who is vetting these scripts? Are you waiting for the public to dredge through the majority of submissions that are crap? (which, in an open system, they will be). Who has time to read a bunch of scripts and then put in $25 in the hopes it will be made? This model is NOT going to work.
-development takes time and skill to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think the idea of having the public screen promising content is valid...but who pre-filters to save us the time? It'll have to be like YouTube in terms of letting popularity pull stuff to the fore. Who goes first? I'm calling all projects "AAA Man" or "AAAAAaah! I'm falling" and not Zebra or Xylophone Adventures.
-other companies are using public feedback, but LATER - such as after the movies are made and into the festival circuit. When you invest in anything, it isn't just the idea (learned this during the dotcom phase) - the team is more important than the idea. That's why Bruckheimer can make a zillion dollars on Transformers, but I predict Speed Racer will suck HARD. (Aside - since I think the Wachowskis jumped the shark already).
-other minor issue: if open to public for investing - great, everybody can see/rip off your idea

So - I like the market analysis that drives this, but the model isn't going to cut it...in my opinion.

Why write so much about it then? Because I've been thinking a lot about what differentiates changes in the tools of a business versus changes in a business.

SUNDAY UPDATE: the comments have been quite lively on this one, with comments and responses between Shane (the site creator) and others. One of the excellent points I forgot to bring up early on: the legality of this business model. I recall reading about another site that tried something similar previously (I think for a single, particular film) and got into trouble over the legality of offering up an investment opportunity publicly that wasn't registered with the SEC, or didn't screen for qualified investors, or something along those lines. I emailed Shane and we back and forthed a bit, at one point I suggested the following:

Hey -

didn't mean to sound totally ragging on it, just pointed out some problems, which could be done more constructively.

Let me clarify - I think striving to find new ways to fund movies is GREAT, but this approach has flaws.

I think there's some missing pieces in what you suggest, but there's a good seed living in there.

-mike
biggest issue:

3. As for vetting the scripts this is something we dont want to do. We believe the net is about democracy. If we choose the scritps then we are no different to every studio adn funding body. We want the public to choose. And as you said the more money they've raised the better people believe the film will be. Films are ordered by highest percentage of budget raised. The film closest to goiing into production by a percentile is at the top.


The biggest issue - what is the incentive for "the public" to go through these?

Way to improve:

-those who fund the most, THAT AREN'T AFFILIATED WITH THE FILM (that is of course a very hard distinction to draw)...hmmm....wait, try again:

-those who have invested the most in OTHER PROJECTS (total amount invested) should carry a heavier score/weight for their recommendations, based on money where mouth is.

-or at least, some kind of ranking for "total invested in films besides this one, amount invested in this film" would be good to know.

-in terms of investing, it is a far safer thing to bet later, when the product is closer to delivery, than early on, when it is just an idea the and team/concept/product are unproven. As with other venture capital, earliest money should be best rewarded. The first invested dollar is the greatest risk, therefore should get the greatest reward. Last dollar in gets lowest yield.

-as with all development projects, more money than originally anticipated should be expected. Completion funds net a lower yield than seed round investors - completion funders are more likely to get their money back - less risk, less reward.

-the most interesting folks to visit your site aren't the public, who might confirm or deny a suspicion that a property might be good, but potential investors for films. It'd be like playing the penny stocks for them. Or talent scouting. Or something.

All grist for the mill to figure this out.


I'm not down on Shane for trying to do this, I just think as present suggested it isn't going to work. That doesn't mean give up, just that it needs further work.

My comments didn't even tackle the legalities, which I think are their biggest problem right now.

Again, why discuss this at length if this isn't working? Because a new indie funding model would be a very good thing. It isn't worth most serious investors' time to put $50-$150K into a highly risky venture - moviemaking is, from a strictly fiscal point of view, a HORRIBLE investment. There's usually an emotional component to investing in a movie.

withoutabox.com has been trying to do more to help those who've already made a film, and good on them for working on it (dunno how well that has turned out).

But with all the new avenues of potential distribution beyond theatrical opening up, the catch is now how to get to proper distribution channels, market the product successfully, and recoup investment so that it can be a sustainable business model.

-mike

-mike

Labels:

Comments:
The best filter still seems to be your willingness to offer your body for medical experiments or drain several credit cards. If you believe in your film enough to do that, you'll believe in it enough to make a great film.
 
Glad that my site is generating discussion.

Raising a films budget is always the hardest part, and after studios, distributors, production companies and government funding bodies turn you down there are few other avenues. Many filmmakers started their careers on the DIY financing route....hopefully indiemaverick.net can help them raise a bit more.

I'd just like to say that we are always looking at improving the site...we've only be launched about 10 days and am open to any advice from filmmakers to help improve it.

I'll try and address your above concerns:

1. Obviously that whislt more people have access to the tools of filmmaking it's still the craftsmanship of the filmmaker that will decide whether or not a good film is made. My point was simply that if more people are making films at a novice or home level then there will surely be a greater number of people trying to pursue a career, and hence looking to make films.

2. You're point about Rodriguez is valid, as his film is much better than his script. This is why filmmakers on indie mav can post links to previous films so potential investors can get a feel for you as a filmmaker not just a script writer. The idea is to choose a filmmaker who you believe has gusto, who could be a star.

3. As for vetting the scripts this is something we dont want to do. We believe the net is about democracy. If we choose the scritps then we are no different to every studio adn funding body. We want the public to choose. And as you said the more money they've raised the better people believe the film will be. Films are ordered by highest percentage of budget raised. The film closest to goiing into production by a percentile is at the top.

4. People wont want to read a script to put $25 in. Maybe not...but they may watch the previous films, read the synopsis. Maybe larger investors will want to read the script. It's a market place, some filmmakers put up everything others less. Investors look at what they want.

You're other point seem to be along the line of vetting etc which i think i've answered but happy to elaborate if need be.

5. Copyright infringement. Obviouly all materials simply by publication on the site create a copyright. I really don't beleive a filmmaker is going to steal someone elses script and spend years of their life making it and marketing it. Any one who is talented and creative enough to get a film to the screen wants to get their vision to the screen not someone elses, and then begin their career being known as a theif. I've worked in filma and tv in the UK and Australia and no noone that has ever been ripped off, it seems to be something saved for US studios or the like.

Mike your points are valid, i hope I was albe to answer some of your questions. In the end we've tried to ceate a new avenue for filmmakers to raise their budgets...this can only be a good thing.

I welcome all comments and again any suggestions to improve the site and help filmmakers are welcome.

Shane Hal
 
Great analysis Mike!

Robert Greenwald once raised the budget for his Wal-Mart film by simply putting a request on his website.

Or Matty Rich

(imdb)

"To raise financing for his film, Matty Rich went on a local radio station in Brooklyn, asking for pledges. The next day about 50 people showed up and he raised $77,000 in the space of 20 minutes."

This was pre-internet.

I do agree with your concerns. Some people might be great at 'playing the moneyraising game' SCAM ARTISTS. But have no interest in actually making a film!
 
As a filmmaker interested in exploring anything new regarding film financing, I find the concept intriguing. I just put one of our films up on the site and we'll see what happens. So far, we've had quite a few people look. I was hesitant about putting the script up, but what they heck, it's registered and copyrighted, so what have I got to lose? The site could use a lot more features and I'd be more that happy to let you know what I think, Shane. So write to me at: linda@nelsonmadisonfilms.com
 
Mike,

Thanks for pointing out the site. It's an interesting model, and I think your analysis is probably pretty accurate - it's going to be tough to make it work. I really wish Shane and everyone a lot of luck with it though. Everyone should be trying something different. The current model does NOT work for indies.

One thing it does not address at all and I think it's too often overlooked: Even getting investors is only 33% of the battle in the process of filmmaking. You still need a distributor and money/willingness from a distributor to market your movie. In most cases those two things are out of your control as the producer/director/writer.

Also, a 70/30 split in favor of investors is really steep. Lower budget projects need the freedom to give away points to potential stars and crew in order to come in that "low budget" range. This would leave absolutely nothing for post, fx, and soundtrack deals.

Anything made for under $1M is not paying scale rates to anyone - so freedom with the points in the film are all that you have.

-Steve
http://www.drinkmepictures.com/
 
Hey Mike,

Back again after reading through the Indie Maverick terms/conditions for both filmmakers and investors. I really don't think this model is legal.

We considered trying to offer securities / ownership in our movie "Toast" when we launched our Drink Me Pictures' site, but all of the lawyers we consulted told us that it wouldn't be legal unless we were selling registered securities.

There is a vast framework of missing necessary legal language missing from the Indie Maverick site. There is nothing said about auditing rights for the investor. Net profits are not defined. The legal company structure for how each film is owned/made is not defined.

This would not be a good use of people's time/money based on the legal language posted on their site as of right now - and NO I'm certainly not a lawyer. I could point anyone to several lawyers who would back up what I'm saying.

Cheers,
Steve
http://www.drinkmepictures.com/
 
I'm back again......

To address Steve's points:

The 70/30 split does favour the investor but i believe its the investor here that needs the incentive. If a film does well the cast and key crew will make money from future films, the investors will only make money from this one. Your're point about points is a good one, but producers will have to either offer deffered wages, budget them in, or offer part of their 30% to cast or crew.

Regarding the legals this has been a mine field and you're right that the USA has very stringent investment laws. We've based our structure outside of the USA for those very reasons. Sometimes technology moves ahead of legislation.

I'll look into you're t and c concerns, but our lawyers at this end are saying its all ok but dont want people having any concerns.

If you have any other questions i can be contacted at shane@indiemaverick.net .

I've set this up for filmmakers and really believe a new financing model is needed. If there's bugs with it am happy to change it....just let me know.

shane hall
inidemaverick.net
 
I don't know how Rodriguez managed to make so much money from selling his body. I looked it all up online but with today's legislation, you can only make $50-100 a day for the duration of the experiment (usually only one day), once every 4 months. It'd take decades to make $7000.
 
Rodriguez was in and out of medical experiments for several months - which gave him time to write scripts as well, according to his book, "Rebel Without a Crew".

The indiemaverick model is obviously not appropriate for everyone, however micro-financing through social networks is a growing trend. You can look at A Swarm of Angels for a film example.
http://aswarmofangels.com/

While something like this might not be part of a serious investment portfolio, it can be considered a donation or patronship with a good-faith expectation for repayment. Like Pay Pal, with "a piece of the action" attached.

There are a lot of people out there that would appreciate something like this (co-workers, friends, family), and while I wouldn't browse this site looking to invest my 401k, I might contribute to see a story or documentary on an issue I care about get into production.

This site has a lot of room to grow, but simply facilitating the transactions and allowing investors to follow the production is a good start.

-Sean
 
indiemaverick.net I think the Indie Maverick group act as an intermediary, it seems they don't actually sell securities in a film, rather providing the platform to put film makers and film investors in the same room. The Film Makers who list their films on this site however are taking investment from people to raise their film, this would be perceived as taking an investment rather than "Selling" a share in their film, the same way as a film maker would accept funding from 3 or 4 private sources only with many more investors. If they can attract enough investors to the site it could work.
 
Craig,

The legality here for securities investment does not change no matter who's the intermediary or the actual filmmaker. The fact remains that Indie Maverick is taking people's (investment) money, and setting terms for a (promissory) "profit" or a return on their investment. Whether you call something a "security" or if you want to call it "points" or even "blue muffins" for that matter, the law has this definition: "something given or deposited as surety for the fulfillment of a promise or an obligation, the payment of a debt, etc."

With no visible disclaimer language warning that investment in films is high risk, they are already liable for claims of investor fraud by anyone who would "invest" through this model.

I'm not entirely sure what the repercussions are because they are "based" outside of the USofA. It raises a few alarm bells in my mind just by that very fact. The US has "stringent" investment laws to protect people from fraud.

I hope you understand, I'm not trying to rain on Shane's parade here. I just don't want to see someone's hopes raised and then have problems arise once their movie is tied up in some legal nightmare that could have been avoided from the very beginning.

Lets say that for the basis of argument that the film is the actual "investment" instrument. Even if that's true, public solicitation of investment for any purpose is illegal in the US unless the investment is a security registered with the SEC. If it's a non-registered "private" placement, then they would have a cap on the number of potential investors that would be FAR below what Indie Maverick is doing - especially since it's over the Internet which crosses state and international jurisdictions.

Jon:
You bring up "A Swarm of Angels" as a film example. What film have they completed or even started based on investment through social networks? It is amazing to me how people will say that something is a "growing trend" when there are virtually no examples of anyone succeeding. It's like saying that cold fusion is a growing trend because there are people trying. Shouldn't a trend be measured by it's ability to be repeated?

"Four Eyed Monsters" is probably the best example anyone can give, and they only achieved a level of break-even because they partnered up with a corporate sponsor of sorts. I don't consider Robert Greenwald to be an appropriate example because he is a documentary filmmaker who received money because of his "cause" not because of the merits of the film he was undertaking. Nothing to detract from what he did because it was stellar and fantastic. It just doesn't qualify in my mind as a film being made through "social networks". It was made through his own network.

I'd love to hear people's comments.

Best wishes,
Steve
http://www.drinkmepictures.com/
 
Actually Shane said that and not me but I can see how you made the mistake. My comment is just above his and it's a bit difficult to tell which name is assigned to which comment.
 
I do believe A swarm of Angels has gotten to its initial goal of 1000 investors, at least that's what the site's saying.

Also from a crowd funding perspective Sellaband has generated a lot of investment for its atists/musicians. Our model is similar and i believe if filmmakers market and promote themselves then they too will see their films going into production just as sellaband has facilitated musicians going into the studio and recording an album.

Sellaband is based in germany and is subject to German law. Again I agree these models are very hard to set up legally in the USA, i hope the law on this will change soon. If people have any concerns or need more info on this please email us at info@indiemaverick.net. We're not out to rip anyone off or have people's films locked in legal troubles. We're after the complete opposite, to help filmmakers get their film made. Most of us who've put our time and energy into this site have done it for this reason. Hopefully you'll come and support it and independent filmmakers.
 
Mike and Myself have been having some email correspondence re indie mav and he's having some mail problems and said i could post his comments here, so i thought i would for everyone's benefit and also as i think he does make some good points which we will try and look into.


Hey -

didn't mean to sound totally ragging on it (am in a frustrated fundraising mode in a way myself), just pointed out some problems, which could be done more constructively.

Let me clarify - I think striving to find new ways to fund movies is GREAT, but this approach has flaws.

I think there's some missing pieces in what you suggest, but there's a good seed living in there.

-mike


Mike Curtis
HD For Indies - Hi Def Filmmaking & Post for Independent Filmmakers
http://www.hdforindies.com
mike@hdforindies.com

biggest issue:

3. As for vetting the scripts this is something we dont want to do. We believe the net is about democracy. If we choose the scritps then we are no different to every studio adn funding body. We want the public to choose. And as you said the more money they've raised the better people believe the film will be. Films are ordered by highest percentage of budget raised. The film closest to goiing into production by a percentile is at the top.


The biggest issue - what is the incentive for "the public" to go through these?

Way to improve:

-those who fund the most, THAT AREN'T AFFILIATED WITH THE FILM (that is of course a very hard distinction to draw)...hmmm....wait, try again:

-those who have invested the most in OTHER PROJECTS (total amount invested) should carry a heavier score/weight for their recommendations, based on money where mouth is.

-or at least, some kind of ranking for "total invested in films besides this one, amount invested in this film" would be good to know.

-in terms of investing, it is a far safer thing to bet later, when the product is closer to delivery, than early on, when it is just an idea the and team/concept/product are unproven. As with other venture capital, earliest money should be best rewarded. The first invested dollar is the greatest risk, therefore should get the greatest reward. Last dollar in gets lowest yield.

-as with all development projects, more money than originally anticipated should be expected. Completion funds net a lower yield than seed round investors - completion funders are more likely to get their money back - less risk, less reward.

-the most interesting folks to visit your site aren't the public, who might confirm or deny a suspicion that a property might be good, but potential investors for films. It'd be like playing the penny stocks for them. Or talent scouting. Or something.

All grist for the mill to figure this out.

-mike

PS-feel free to post this discussion in the comments of my blog, or on your site, or anywhere you think it'd help.


Mike Curtis
HD For Indies - Hi Def Filmmaking & Post for Independent Filmmakers
http://www.hdforindies.com
mike@hdforindies.com
 
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