HD For Indies

High-Def Penetration Explodes with Strong PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 Add-On Sales | High-Def Digest - more PS3's and HD-DVD add-ons for Xbox 360 means LOTS more high def players on the market all of a sudden.

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More players are coming to market, slooooooowly:

Ultimate AV: Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray Disc Player: Sneak Peek: "$1,300 Digital Video Output: HDMI Video Upconversion: 720p, 1080i/p Feature Highlights: Blu-ray Disc Player, upconversion of standard-def DVDs to 720p or 1080i/p via HDMI"

Toshiba second gen HD DVD players delayed worldwide - Engadget HD: "Toshiba just couldn't let Sony hog all the high-def DVD spotlight with its delays, so it has pushed back its second generation HD DVD players in the US and abroad."

Sound And Vision Magazine - Shootout: 3 Blu-ray Disc Players

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Xbox Live Video is um.. Live - DV Guru

In the "state of the format wars," HD movie downloads are now officially on the map. Slow, currently a bit buggy, large downloads (6.1 GB for V for Vendetta, which is admittedly a long movie), but in the marketplace.

I would guess that the image quality isn't as good as HD-DVD or Blu-ray, since MS is probably using Windows Media, of which VC-1 is a variant (which is 1 or 3 compression options for HD-DVD and Blu-ray). But it is THERE.

And considering that you don't need the $200 HD-DVD add-on, and you don't need a standalone player that costs MANY hundreds more than a Xbox360 that oh yeah also plays killer games...it continues to chip away at the viability of EITHER shiny plastic disc standard as the way to watch high def movies.

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YouTube Effect: CBS Gets Massive Boost - DV Guru: "In one of those 'I told you so' moments, CBS recently announced that their TV shows have received a major boost after they released some of their content on YouTube."

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CinemaTech: `The Future of Web Video': Now in Paperback Scott Kirsner's incredibly up to date book is now available in paperback for offline viewing.

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globeandmail.com: No business model for HDTV, CBC tells CRTC: "As television shifts towards high-definition channels and programs, broadcasters are finding no business model for HDTV and are instead being forced to foot the massive bill, the head of CBC warned Monday."

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The Coporation: full doc made available online - DV Guru

This is the second "known" doc that is being posted online in full. Emailed a buddy of mine about this, he said he had the DVD in his player from Netflix, wonders how cool they are with this. My guess - content distributors like Amazon (for sales) and Netflix (for rentals) will likely over-react to the reality of the situation - how many people are going to download a movie over BitTorrent and watch on their computer rather than Netflix/Amazon it? Not too many. But as a content distributor, finding out that your content is available out there for free must be upsetting.

I'd meant to see it, I think I'll download it now (take THAT, Netflix queue!)

glib PS - so does my public statement that I'm going to download something for free that Netflix has probably violate something in the birdseed text of my agreement with Netflix such that I'll have to pay them some rental fee on it or it "counts" as a DVD at my house until I present signed affidavit that I've deleted it from hard drive? Not yet, but maybe one day...

; )

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Why HD-DVD and Blu-ray are dead on arrival. - By Sean Cooper - Slate Magazine Nice one, sums up a lot of my feelings....durn it. I WANT a plastic shiny disc to work since that bodes well for indies, but it isn't getting there very fast. And shiny plastic discs are the easiest way for indies to compete - the Internet and pay-per-view and other options mentioned here are not as likely accessible for indies - you can't get in on that game as a niche or micro play the way you can with a DVD on Amazon and/or Netflix.

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World first: download-to-own movie service | APC Magazine: "Online movie service Reeltime has announced what it claims to be the world's first 'download to own' movie service, in partnership with Universal Pictures.
The concept is unique %u2013 purchasing a title from ReelTime gives the user access to three digital files. The first two are WMV %u2013 one for playback on a PC or laptop, and the other is suitable for playback on a Windows Plays4Sure-compatible portable device. The third file is used to burn the movie securely and legally to DVD (up to three times), which you then own."

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iPod DVD ripping request rejected News - PC Advisor: "The US Library of Congress has rejected a petition that would allow US iPod users to copy their movies to iPods and other devices." - poop on them, durnit! How exactly is this different from xeroxing some pages of a book you own to take with you? Ummm....

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And lastly, Machinima.com: "Make Love, Not Warcraft" - this is just fun, and kinda online stuff, but a neat thing to get in here. Didja see the South Park with the Worlds of Warcraft story? Here's how they did it, with the game maker's active assistance. Also includes some video snippets from the show. If you didn't see it, you should - it is GREAT. Typical nasty South Park, but GREAT. MMMMmmm....naaaaaasty....

What make this fit in this section? Let's see...oh yeah! You can download the episode on iTunes for $2.

:D

-mike

FresHDV | Motion control - video tutorial. - thinking about using motion control on a project? Read this.

My own experiences: many years ago, Ford was going to introduce their own eco-friendly line of transportation products. I was working at frodesign and was the VFX supervisor and compositor on the project.

Lesson 1: Setting up motion control moves takes MUCH longer than you'd expect. Talk to you vendor, describe EXACTLY what you want to do (don't waffle and "forget to mention") - then BELIEVE THEM when they give you a time estimate

-even on tracks, the system will jiggle or move a bit, it doesn't EXACTLY repeat the moves you want. Third party stabilization tools, like those in Shake or iStabilize, can help (but if you're going to the budget level of moco, use Shake level tools!)

-we shot greenscreen of a car - ugh, ugh, ugh - now I know better and why so many car commercials are all CG - greenscren of shiny things, even with a zillion white bounce cards, is YUCKY and a pain and required a lot of rotoscope.

-plus, the particular system we were using had "out of bounds" ranges - if you swung it too far, or swing it so fast it can't come to rest before the Magic End of World value, the control values went "off the end of the universe" as somebody put it, and the system spazzes out trying to find itself. This means the 12 foot long arm starts swingly violently around - with a $100+K film camera on the end of it, about to swing into the actors or beauty camera car. Ooooooops. Would be bad. Happened once, the moco guys frantically dove for the power plugs to kill power, nobody and nothing got hurt. Of course, not all moco systems have this problem, but sheesh...

It also turned out to be a cursed project in other ways - the king of Norway's schedule interfered with our shoot, and Ford ALMOST sent us a lime green car to use in the greenscreen shoot. Two guys got food poisioning late on deadline that were doing the 3D and motion graphics on part of the project. After I mentioned on set that maybe the person on electrical assist bicycle should have a helmet, and was told it'd be OK, of course Ford legal pitched a fit and a reshoot was demanded....ultra late in the process of course. Then they asked if we could just CG a photorealistic helmet on the guy riding a bike swooping full frame through the greenscreen shot...right...and so forth...

-mike

DV - First Look: Sony HVR-V1 24p HDV Camera

Adam Wilt, whom I have tremendous respect for, takes his typically thorough in-depth look at a pre-production Sony HVR-V1 camcorder, Sony's first HDV to do a "real" 24p.

Some highlights:

-is very like a 24p, HDV PD170
-best control layout Sony's done, and that's saying something GOOD
-"The V1 uses three 1/4-inch CMOS sensors in place of the more-common 1/3-inch CCDs. The CMOS sensors are completely free from vertical smear and draw less power than CCDs, and their architecture allows for some interesting tricks"
-pixels arrayed diagonally in a 960x1080 grid, it mixes the sampling from the diagonal grid with sub-samples averaged from the grid, creating some interesting resolution characteristics
-can also shoot a burst high speed mode, which uses fewer pixels are higher frame rates (CMOS allows this, is what the SI-2K and Red One will do when those ship)
-true progressive scan
-rolling shutter
-informally, seems sharper than Z1
-"overall, the V1 looks like a worthy addition to the choices available to HDV shooters."

As usual, Adam gets deep into the nitty gritty - so go read it all, I didn't mention lots of good stuff. While I tend to focus on the specifications and capabilities more exclusively, Adam covers that stuff PLUS the shootability of the camera - the way it feels to hold, the way the buttons fall to hand, etc. - I mostly care about what to do with the images after shooting (Hey, I'm a post guy!), Adam is concerned also with how you get good images and what it is like to work with - vital info.

This sounds like it'll be a worthy camera to consider in the future for low budget indie/doc prodution.

-mike

Multicam Sync in Final Cut Pro - good one. For instance, under method:

For this example we assume you know how to create and edit in basic multiclip mode. It's in the manual and well explained.
You should also know that it's easier to pull footage into sync by audio than it is by video unless you have a clapboard or other clear visual indicator.
Assume your cams have no interlocked time code.
Assume some cams have been turned off and on while others have run the length of the shoot.
Know also that where you set the in-point as the sync point has no bearing on the start of the multicam, i.e. if you had three full length cams running and the only audio or visual sync point was half way through, if you set that point as your sync point you can still multiclip edit from the beginning of the shoot (set the multiclip viewer's in-point to your first required frame before pulling it onto the timeline)
Assume for this example a multicam music shoot.


Typical good detailed Ken Stone level stuff.

(found via DVguru.com)

-mike

Digital Film and Workflows: An Interview with David Stump, ASC - Dave is an incredibly knowledgeable guy who has shot a lot of film and d-cinema projects. He talks about, well, the obvious. Worth reading.

Some edited excerpts:

Asked about the Red camera:

Q: Do you have any plans to use the new Red Digital Cinema 4k camera when it's available?
A: ...I'm currently doing testing with Jim Jannard's new Red 4k camera. I see the Red camera as a very solid, viable tool for the film industry. Not many people have seen the images - raw or on the color corrector. I have, and this is about to become a really good camera.

He said later:

I expect the clarity and resolution of the Red 4k camera to be just as good. The results are so striking that studios will now be willing to take the risks to achieve more resolution, more color space.

-------

Q: What do you like about 4k?
A: One word: clarity. It harkens back to the beauty you -------saw achieved in the first print from 65mm or Vista Vision - strikingly crisp and clear.

----

Q: Do you think digital film will become the mainstream medium for feature films and TV productions in the future?
A: Absolutely. It's an economical means to get a high quality movie on the big screen...

---

Q: How will digital film affect the larger movie studios and the independent film makers?
A: Economics drives the film industry. And every market adapts to, and gains from, advances in technology. In this case, it's the filmmakers that gain from advances in hybrid, digital-film workflow tools. Digital film is moving the industry into bigger possibilities and different kinds of projects. With lower production costs, more of the budget can go into the content. We'll see different kinds of projects from both studios and indies.

I've edited this down, read the whole thing for all the details. He also speaks highly of the coming Olympus 4K camera (but as usual, I'm more interested in the Red camera due to price point - HD for INDIES, ya know.)


-mike

cineSpace 2.5 - Colour Management for Film - Product

Is a link on the above page, here's a direct link to the PDF.

Discusses closed loop calibration, the different types of LUTs and what they are for, matching to film, defining a standard to stick to, etc.

Thanks Mark for sending in the link!

-mike

The editblog � How to read an EDL - title says it all, but here's how he starts:

The EDL, or Edit Decision List, is the most basic and simple way to translate an offline edit sequence to an online system. Most all systems generate them (maybe not iMovie), and most all systems will read them. They only transfer a limited amount of information so it would be preferable to use XML, OMF, AAF, AFE, Automatic Duck %u2026 but sometimes you don%u2019t have a choice. Here's a basic on how to read one.


(found via DVguru.com)

DV - HDV to 35mm Film Transfer Tests With The JVC HD100

Good article with good tips, LOTS of details on proper camera settings (that is EXACTLY what you want from this kind of article) with a lot of examples and sample images and stuff. Good reading if you're thinking of using the JVC or a film-bound project.

(found via the ever-useful FresHDV.com.)

Volumetrix - Home

It's a OpenGL accelerated plugin (FxPlug), so instead of the historically ultra-slow performance one gets from volumetric lighting plugins, this is REALLY fast.

There is a 15 day free trial and a watchable demo, and is only $49. For titling, if you want the look, totally worth it.

It was created using FXfactory - a set of tools from Noise Industries to make your own plugins. This whole concept is very cool.

So this plugin was made from the tech from Noise Industries, by somebody else using their tools. Noise Industries - FxFactory is an OpenGL accelerated set of plugins for Final Cut Pro, including the ability to create your OWN plugins pretty easily. I met them at IBC, and regretfully haven't done a full write-up as yet (which is soooooo overdue, they make cool stuff).

The tech from both is good - this FXplug stuff is nifty

-mike

UPDATE - I had it wrong twice, now I've got it right.

Here's the press release from Noise Industries to set it all straight:

Noise Industries and Idustrial Revolution release Volumetrix for Final Cut Studio

Boston, MA (November 27, 2006) – Noise Industries, developer of visual effects technology for the broadcast and film industry, today announced the release of Volumetrix, a new visual effects package for Apple’s Final Cut Studio. Volumetrix was developed in collaboration with Idustrial Revolution and offers stunning light effects and transitions.

Volumetrix:
"Creating an effect similar to Volumetrix would take a lot of tedious keyframing and then rendering using conventional methods. Volumetrix creates results within seconds in both Final Cut Pro and Motion. The power of Volumetrix is not just limited to making boring text look like a Hollywood trailer, any image with an alpha channel can be transformed using a couple of mouse clicks. Forget old style lighting filters, because as this plugin uses FxPlug, its very fast" said Volumetrix creator Peter Wiggins from Idustrial Revolution.

Peter Wiggins, an early adopter of FCP & Motion, is credited on many high profile TV shows and broadcasts. He applied his many years of experience in the post-production industry to bring his first effects package to FCS editors.

FxFactory:
Volumetrix was created using Noise Industries FxFactory Plug-in creation capabilities. FxFactory is the first expandable effects package for Final Cut Studio, thanks to a plug-in management system that lets users download new visual effects, try them out in projects, and only pay for the plug-ins as needed. For professional users, FxFactory offers new ways to improve their toolset. FxFactory Pro is the only software that allows users to create and modify their own visual effects plug-ins for Final Cut Pro and Motion, without writing a single line of code.

“Volumetrix is a brilliant demonstration of the power of our software, and we are excited to be working with Idustrial Revolution.” added Noise Industries founder Gabriele de Simone. “Here we have a talented digital compositor who created native, real-time plug-ins without writing a single line of code. This is unprecedented in the integrated effects industry.”

FxFactory Expandability:
More FxPacks can be found at the Noise Industries FxMarket, an online repository of visual effects for Final Cut Studio, open to all FxFactory users. As Noise Industries and other third-parties develop new plug-ins using FxFactory, users will enjoy a growing number of visual effects which can be used on a trial basis, and bought as needed.

Pricing and Availability
Volumetrix is available immediately for $49 directly from Noise Industries.

MaxUpgrades.com: MaxConnect for Mac Pro Optical Drive Bay Disk Mounting Assembly

I'm usually not one to advocate stacking more drives in a case (the G5 mods, for instance - the G5 wasn't designed for that kind of thermal/electrical load and config). But this looks promising - add 2, 3, or 4 more drives in your Mac Pro, using the optical bay area.

The 8 drive config I don't like - it requires pulling out your optical drive and requires a SATA card with internal connections - if you're going to go to all that trouble, just get an external array.

But the 6 drive config is intriguing - it leaves the original (if you have only one) optical drive alone, and adds two more in the empty optical bay below that. Since there ARE two more internal SATA connectors inside the Mac Pro, and the power supply is beefy, you have everything you'd need then to connect power and data for this.

And since 5 drives (if fast enough) is just about the magic number threshold to do uncompressed HD work, you'd have 1 drive for boot, and a 5 drive array. If you INSIST on doing an internal array (I'm against it for a variety of reasons), I like this implementation based on what I've seen so far. Finances and space are the only reasons I'd advocate going this way. Since the kit is only $130 for adding the two more drives, that isn't too bad, esp. since you don't need to buy a SATA card.

My one concern is that I'm not 100% sure that the original/single optical drive is completely left alone in the 6 drive config. I'm pretty damn sure there are two available SATA ports on the motherboard, and that there is power enough for two more drives, even if you have to use a Y-splitter to snag power from what was intended for the secondary optical drive.

-mike

UPDATE - email exchange with those folks, I asked:

Can the optical drive still be connected as well as the 2 extra drives WITHOUT requiring another SATA port from a PCIe card?

They said: Correct....that was the main reason for the design.....also very important....on a Mac Pro ........a drive connected to PCI card or any other way other than built in ports is TREATED AS NON NATIVE DRIVE....................unike older G5's

As for what meant by non-native:

maxPro Drive 2 is native....!

maxPro Drive 1 is on PCI Express SATA Controller.
Macintosh HD is on FireWire.

Sorenson Squeeze 4.5 review - DV Guru

For the web-heads - Squeeze is a media encoding solution, esp. useful for Windows Media encoding, is 3x faster than previous version.

Yeah, a lot of little news bits today.

-mike

Using After Effects 7 on Intel MacPro Computers

It's been problematic for a LOT of people, so here's this guy's way. Of course, YMMV.

-mike

PS - on a similar note, GridIron Nucleo Pro updated, price reduced - DV Guru

Digit news - Cheapest ever Mac storage network hits streets

ATA over GigE - and it'll do RAID 0/1/5/10.

OK, but how fast is it? It is cheap, but they seem to charge a beefy premium for Mac support, moreso than Linux.

Anybody work with this yet? Any field reports appreciated.

Supposedly up to 110MB/sec - good enough for compressed work, not enough for 1080 uncompressed work. Would work for 720p24, though.

All that assuming it can sustain rates consistently.

-mike

After sitting down with Ted to catch up on the camera and business sides of Red, I thought I'd catch up with Graeme Nattress, the man in charge of the codec and software side of the Red project. Graeme couldn't make it to LA for the screening the other week, so we conducted this Q&A via email. There's one big fat new exclusive piece of info you should be sure to read about: RPL, aka Red Pull List. I've bolded it where it is mentioned below, it is our Secret Sauce to conform projects. OK, on with the show:

Q: So Redcode - tell the uninitiated what it is:

A: Redcode is a compression scheme designed especially for the RED camera. It's a wavelet based compression that works in 10bit or 12bit (the camera is 12bit natively) and with RGB or RAW data. When you're using 10bit mode, you have the choice of either a standard Log curve, or a REC 709 gamma curve, so that you're immediately compatible with whatever NLE or DI program you're using.

Q: ...and now that Redcode has recently been announced to be 12 bit capable, what can that do for us as users?

A: Well, it means less processing has happened to the RAW data - it's as RAW as we can make it, and hence all of it is preserved with no loss of highlight or shadow detail. That means, you can push and pull the image more freely in post without worrying about loosing quality. With 12bit, each RAW pixel uses a range of 0-4095 to represent it's value. (Mike note - most HD tape formats are 8 bit, using a range of only 0-255, or the highest end/most expensive tape formats 10 bit, using a range of 0-1023.) That makes for finer graduations, less possibility of banding, and as it's linear, is already in the best form for compositing.

(Mike addition - I'd previously challenged whether this was of any use in a non-VFX environment - while tools like After Effects 7, Combustion, Shake, fusion, etc. can work with source material with more than 10 bits of precision, most NLEs are limited to either 8 or 10 bits of precision at best. Jim pointed out to me that when you're doing your basic color balancing/correction in REDCINE, it is processed in 32 bit float on the GPU in REDCINE - so you WOULD gain the benefit of that greater precision at this earliest stage when you're making what is most likely your most aggressive color decisions. So 10 or 12 bit source, manipulate in 32 bit float, then deliver the best possible results to generate your working copy for offline or online. As a bonus, if you decide you need to push it in a dramatically different direction later, you can go back to the source and reprocess it again, from source, to get different yet still optimal results - the cleanest possible workflow, starting from the RAW source data)

While proofing the article, Graeme schools me further:

Tape formats use only the 16-235 range for legal values, allowing up to 254 for super white. In 10bit, it's 64 - 960 + superwhite up to 1022.

Q: I noticed that when the announcement was made that Redcode was now 12 bit capable, the target data rates weren't changed. Is that affecting the image quality? Or are you just tweaking the compression figures?

A: We're improving the compression in other areas to compensate. That's working very well, and that, combined with the efficiencies of RAW, and that when there's less processing applied to data, there's less extra noise introduced, it is compressing great. One of the things that people forget, is that all the traditional image processing that gets applied to video detracts from it's ability to be easily compressed. Adding sharpness or edge enhancement, colour processing, or gamma all add noise or make the image harder to compress. By leaving the RAW data in as RAW a state as possible, we can achieve the our quality and compression ratio goals.

4.) Originally, 720p, 1080p, 1080i, 2K, 4K, 4.5K were discussed as camera possibilities - which of these can Redcode record on the Red Flash or Red Drive?

A:

REDCODE Does:
720p, 1-120fps
1080p, 1-60fps
2K, 1-60fps (windowed or scaled, as I understand it - mike)

REDCODE RAW Does:
2k RAW 1-60fps (windowed as I understand it - mike)
4k RAW 1-30fps

FYI - REDCODE is the RGB codec - it isn't RAW, it has been demosaiced/deBayered. But what about 1080i? Did it go away? This broadcast standard will be important to support.

1080i50/60 Interjection:

I got suspicious when I didn't see 1080i60 listed as supported in Graeme's answer, so I followed up with Stuart English, who as always Knows All:

Q: Ah - so using REDCODE RGB  or 1080p60 (windowed or downsampled), in Redcine you could be kicking out a very nice 1080i, right?

But it sounds like there won't be a 1080i60 codec for direct recording, correct? 

A: There really is no point, compression is easier and has less artifacts using 1080p  as its source v's 1080i. At the end of the day, interlace is a transmission path compression, so long as we can create it for a deliverable (including HD-SDI outputs) that's all we should worry about.

Q: So if/when native NLE support comes along, in theory it could just be flagged to deliver its content in this fashion.

A: Yes, when 1080p / 60 NLE's are available, 1080i could be output on the fly - just as 3:2 is added to 24 fps material today. Again, when in a file based workflow, go the legacy tape / broadcast interlace format at the last stage possible, keep it in progressive format(s) as long as possible. 

Q: Or, instead of dropping every other field, just super sample for ultra clean, correct?

A: Perhaps, but dropping odd then even fields in alternate frames easier to do for low power apps.

Q: And 1080i60 could be derived with a crop & process within REDCINE from a 2K 60p as well, correct?

A: Sure, it could be done there. 2K RGB or 1080p RGB to 1080i are both fairly straight forward

Q: Questions questions questions!

A: Think Digital Cinema (film) Negative and Telecine / Lab and most questions get answered ! 

End Stuart Interjection. Also, 1080i50 is easily derived from 50p recording, which of course Red One can do as well same way as 1080i60.

Q: So what is the plan for recording greater than 60fps 2K scaled or windowed?

A: 2K RAW at 120 fps and 4K RAW at 60 fps require external recording. That would be via the RAW Data Port (optical high speed port). Recording solutions for the Raw data port are under development, and there will more than likely be 3rd party partners that will have a number of different options on this front.

(Mike clarification - 2K RAW at >60-120fps and 4K RAW at >30-60fps is another way of thinking of those numbers)

One of the first goals of the 4k RAW compression goal was to be able to record 24p, which we believe is the right choice considering the RED ONE’s goal of becoming a true digital replacement for traditional 35mm film production. We also understand, especially from our friends in Europe, that 4k50p would be, for instance, very desirable. And 60fps 4k on board for slow motion would also have great benefit to our customer base. Although our current specs don't allow us to record higher than 4k30p at the moment, we're actively engaged in research to see how to make it possible. As you know, we're a small team, and have to prioritize our development efforts, and for 4k RAW that means 24fps, 25fps and 30fps, but we've certainly not forgotten about the higher frame rates for either superb slowmo, or for general ultra-high definition television use.

Q: I've heard that with wavelet, it is easy to extract lower resolution during decode, rather than decode whole thing then scale results - true?

A: Yes indeed. It's one of the key benefits of wavelets and how the wavelet transform works.

Q: Redcode on a computer - will it play back in real time?

A: Yes, if your computer is fast enough. How fast is fast enough? Well, we're still in development, and the computer industry just keeps improving things a lower and lower prices.

Q: OK then - Redcode on a computer - will it play back scaled down in real time?

A: Yes indeed. I've played 4k RAW 24p scaled down in real time on my laptop, and it looked great.

OK, switching gears, lets talk about

REDCINE: for the uninitiated, what is it?

A: REDCINE is a fully functioned software application to bring in your REDCODE footage, adjust raw conversion settings, and export to practically any format supported by your system. 

(Mike addition - Graeme has previously also discussed how Redcine will have some basic, one-light style color correction tools - the website mentions white balance, gamma, gain, color, saturation, contrast, & curves. No heavy tools like vignettes or secondary color correction, just the kind of stuff you might do in a one light telecine session - but all done on GPU, in 32 bit float, starting from that 10 or 12 bit source.)

Q: What kinds of file formats will be supported?

A: On import, only RED formats, but export will be to Quicktime or DPX, Cineon, Tiff, BMP etc. for still formats. Additionally, we can take advantage of most extra codecs installed on your system to output to DV or DVCProHD for example.

(Mike addition here - compressed and uncompressed Red formats supported, and for export, if it is a codec that is installed on your system that is normally available for QT aware apps (in the Mac case) to write to, you can use it - that's the caveat. As for still file formats, the website lists TIFF, DPX, JPEG2000, CINEON, PSD, JPEG, and probably others as well to follow. It has been previously discussed, ad nauseum, that any bit depth you have a codec for can be supported - 10 bit 4:2:2, 10 bit 4:4:4, 16 bit 4:4:4, 8 bit 4:2:2, whatever - no artificial boundaries.)

Q: What frame sizes will be supported?

A: It works on all frame sizes supported by the RED camera, so from 720p up to 2540p (4.5k), and can export to whatever size you want, including SD resolutions for PAL and NTSC.

Q: Will it be possible to crop as well as scale?

A: Yes

Q: What kind of conversion times are we looking at?

A: Hard to tell. All depends on what you're doing. We're actively engaged in optimization to get users the best experience we can, and are making full use of GPU and multiple CPUs.

Q: You mentioned single core of a G5 for 1.7 sec 4.9K debayering - isn't Redcine going to be strictly Macintel and Wintel? Why, if you have a running build on a G5, not suppport that platform going forward?

A: Well, development work is on PPC as that's what I have for the most part, but REDCINE is a completely different beast, and people will only really understand when they see it. The costs involved in it's development are significant, and we just don't have the time or the money to develop for, an unfortunately dying platform. However, all the other tools we're developing, like the Quicktime REDCODE and REDCODE RAW codec are cross platform and PPC also.

Remember that demosaic time was only mentioned because people had heard it takes 4 or 8 seconds to demosaic a frame from the (other vendor name omitted - and these 4-8 sec demosaic times were from THEIR year old dev code anyway - mike). The (Red's) demosaic used was development code and will be running much faster by the time it makes it into REDCINE. Another important factor is that you don't want to sacrifice 4k quality by using a very quick and low quality demosaic.

And this brings me to one of the important advantages of using RAW as a digital negative: You can gain the benefit of better conversion algorithms and software developments in the future, and use it on footage you already have. Once the camera is out, it's not like we're going to stop working on improving the RAW conversion, and I expect to have a number of small R&D projects that will address various aspects of the RAW conversion process and bring either speed or quality enhancements to the pipeline

Q: Will conversions times vary based on desired size?

A: Yes indeed. Smaller frame sizes will go quicker.

Q: Will there be a "draft mode" for faster conversions?

A: Yes indeed.

Q: Random question - would there be any use to supporting the HDR OpenEXR format?

A: Perhaps as it might make it easier to handle the 12bit linear dynamic range. If I remember correctly, OpenEXR is supported as an output format from REDCINE.

Q: Will REDCINE be bundled with the cameras?

A: Yes.

Q: Will it be available as a standalone application, and if so how much will that app cost?

A: Yes it will, but the precise details are still to be worked out.

Q: It has been said that with Redcine, you can convert to offline, edit, then come back and convert for online - but other than manually coming up with a list to re-convert (which could be ridiculously daunting on a feature), how will conform be more realistically doable? As in automated? I see this as a HUGE potential stumbling block to the proposed workflow.

A: We're looking to automate this with RED Pull List, which will take a NLE EDL or XML file, and create a new project in REDCINE with just the clips you need to tweak or re-render out to a higher resolution. RPL is still in early stages of development, but I think you can see how this will help enormously.

Q: Great, that's a huge missing piece I was worried about. As a follow up, is RPL a separate app or a function of Redcine? Or TBD?

A: RPL is a function of REDCINE, and the exact details of it's operation and interface are still being worked on.

Q: OK, moving on - you previously said, if I understood correctly, that the 4K RAW could be played in realtime at 1K resolution on a reasonable machine in realtime. Does that imply that a 1K extraction to file could be done in 2x or less realtime, depending on codec used? What guidelines can you give us about time here? It is a potentially large issue in terms of dailies, deadline driven environments, etc.

A: 1k extraction is indeed realtime on even my laptop, so conversion to another codec should be very quick. Remember 1k is 1024x576 which is the square pixel spec for wide PAL, which means it looks like superb SD.

Q: I noticed the sample REDCODE RAW stills posted over on CML are 1.5 MB, but multiplying that by 24 (for 24fps shooting) would generate a 36 MB/sec data rate, well in excess of the 27.5 MB/sec rate Red has quoted as a target in the past.

A: The 27.5 MB/sec number is for 4K, and these frames are 4.9K.

(4900 x 2580) / (4096 x 2304) = 1.333

1.5 / 1.333 = 1.125MB/frame, which is 27MB/sec for 24fps.

-Graeme

(As I understand it, the compression math is slightly fudgier than that - bigger images don't require quite proportionally greater datarates, but it is a pretty reasonable approximation considering it is still developmental code at this time.)

The following snippets I lifted from Stuart's comments on DVXUser.com's excellent and robust Red forums (with permission of Jarred Land, site owner):

------------

DVXuser: Undercranking - slower than 1fps is possible, but needs to be tested to see what happens when the shutter is left open for long periods of time.

DVXuser: Framing, sampling, and aspect ratios:

4.5K is RAW, means sampling is RAW (not 4:4:4) and Super 35 framing
4K is RAW, means sampling is RAW (not 4:4:4) and Academy 35 framing
2K if RAW, means sampling is RAW (not 4:4:4) and Super 16 framing
2K if RGB, means sampling is 4:4:4 and Academy 35 or Super 16 framing
1080p if RGB, means sampling is 4:4:4 and Academy 35 or Super 16 framing
1080p if HD, means sampling is 4:2.2 and Academy 35 or Super 16 framing
720p if RGB, means sampling is 4:4:4 and Academy 35 or Super 16 framing
720p if HD, means sampling is 4:2.2 and Academy 35 or Super 16 framing


DVXuser: Primary recording options - (all specs subject to change):

4K RAW, compressed with REDCODE. Recorded to RED-DRIVE or REDFLASH. Frame rates - variable 1 - 30fps.

4.0/4.5K RAW, uncompressed. Recorded via high speed data port to external custom disk array or RAM disk. Frame rates - variable 1 - 60fps.

2K RAW, compressed with REDCODE. Recorded to RED-DRIVE or REDFLASH. Frame rates - variable 1 - 60fps.

2K RAW, uncompressed. Recorded via high speed data port to external custom disk array or RAM disk. Frame rates - variable 1 - 120fps.

2K RGB or 1080p compressed with REDCODE. Recorded to RED-DRIVE or REDFLASH. Frame rates - variable 1 - 60fps. From 4K RAW or 2K RAW original frame.

2K RGB or 1080p uncompressed. Recorded to external disk array over dual link HD-SDI. Frame rates 24 and / or 25fps. From 4K RAW or 2K RAW original frame.

720p compressed with REDCODE. Recorded to RED-DRIVE or REDFLASH. Frame rates - variable 1 - 60fps from 4K RAW original frame, 120fps from 2K RAW original frame.

DVXuser: 4K to 2K RAW in camera

The answer to the 4K to 2K in camera scaling question is 4K RAW to 2K RGB is possible, but that 4K RAW to 2K RAW is not. However we do understand why people are asking for this, and if it can be worked out how to do it, then we'll let everyone know.

....as an interesting sideline to that, there has been conjecture online about shooting compressed full sensor width, but not full height, in order to get a 'scope aspect ratio (2.35 or 2.40). Just based on the volume of pixels, in THEORY that sounds doable - instead of 4096x2304=9.32 megapixels (current 4K default), shooting 4520x1884=8.5 megapixels. I don't know what other limitations might get in the way, but just based on the number of pixel per second to process, shooting 24p with this size and aspect may be a possible option in the future. I think the team is just focused on fulfilling the existing stated specs right now, this is just conjecture for the moment. But perhaps in time this might be an added capability.

DVXuser: Format Choices
In all of these discussions also don't overlook the possibilities with our 2K RGB. As its scaled in-camera from 4K RAW, it has the same FOV and DOF with the advantage for s/n and dynamic range of being a 2:1 oversampled image. Its also recordable to a RED-DRIVE via internal REDCODE RGB compression at any frame rate between 1 - 60fps - including speed ramps.

Also note: The format options chart at http://red.com/formatoptions.htm has also been upadated today (written 11/7/06).

Graeme chipped in right after with this post on DVXuser: And with a high quality scaling algorithm, 2k RGB scaled to 4k should look good. It helps that scale is the only difference - FOV and colour being the same. And that you're progressive too - interlace is horrible for scaling.

As for Frame Ramping?: Stuart wrote on DVXuser: "Yes, RED can frame ramp - either in a smoth S-linear speed up / slow down fashion or via an instantaneous rate change every frame (where we follow an externally generated command set)." Mike notes: no details of what that system might be, where it might come from, how it may work, etc....but the camera will be capable of ramping. Can't help myself but to say it - COOL!

Somewhat off topic, while pulling notes, I stumbled across this one I'd missed on still lens mounts that Jarred Land wrote:

DVXuser: Red Camera.. first test with Still Lens ( Nikon )Me and Jim put the proto Red-Nikon mount on Franky, mounted a DSLR Nikon Prime, and took some test shots. We were very pleased with the results.

All of you praying that you could use Nikon Still lenses on Red, your day just got alot better.

Lens: Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.4 D Manual aperture at f4.0 ( Some Nikon glass, including new models, allow for manual aperture changes.)

here is a still.. 4.9k downrezed to 2k and turned into a medium quality 8 bit JPG - http://www.24puser.com/nikon.jpg

-----end snippets-------

Thanks again to Jarred of DVXuser.com for letting me lift all this good info from his site. If you're interested in, or have a question about the Red, or the DVX100/A/B, or the HVX200, his site is an excellent place to go, if not THE place to go (here isn't bad either for the HD stuff I have to thow in ; ) )

As always, read the rest of those postings and the full threads to get a more comprehensive understanding of what's going on - these were just some nice highlights and summaries and pull quotes.

IN CLOSING

So this is all good news. 12 bit source material, best possible processing space, GPU and multiple CPU acceleration to minimize transcoding times, bundled with the camera, etc. All good stuff.

The matchback/conform issue was the one that had me most concerned - without it, they don't have a viable workflow for larger projects without creating a logistical nightmare.

With a tape based workflow, when it is time for your online, you refer back to the source tapes and just use the same tape names and timecode in/outs to acquire the high quality source material. It is just a matter of feeding in the right tapes when prompted, and waiting for the batch process to capture all the desired footage from each tape.

But in an all digital workflow...there's no batch capturing to be redone, there's only batch copying to be done. And no NLE I'm aware of really has a toolset to help you go find all that media. Let's say you went so far as to assign a removable drive name instead of a reel number in your NLE...the program STILL isn't going to wait for you to hook up drives and copy over the media - NLEs just aren't built to work this way (nor if you'd archived to data tape and wanted to retrieve directly from there, a more convenient yet less likely possibility to work smoothly with current toolsets).

An RPL (Red Pull List) would help this process along. I've shared my own thoughts with the Red team on the nitty gritty of how I'd like this functionality work, starting with an EDL or XML file from your offline edit that is ready to go online, all the way through to an online project with media all linked up. But if it is doing what he says, creating a new Redcine session with your EDL/XML derived selects - then if you're using FCP, it'll be cake to Create Offline using Media Manager and relink to the high res footage that the RPL sets you up to render out.

If you have thoughts on it, or concerns you'd like to see addressed, feel free to use the Comments link at the bottom of this article - the Red guys will read it, trust me.

Next up - analysis of the images posted on CML - 74 MB 16 bit TIFF images right off the Mysterium sensor (after debayering/demosaicing and some minor gamma adjustments), with and without Redcode compression, with and without a matrix applied, etc.

UPDATE: One significant note in that updated chart - clearly, that while the sensor is Super35mm sized, the ONLY way to record using that full size is with the RAW data port...for which Red has no solution that'll ship when the camera does - and it sounds like the REDRAID might be sliding downwards in priority (see Saturday's Ted Schilowitz interview & analysis). In any case, double check the chart before assuming the camera does something you thing it might. The chart is a bit complicated, but study to let it all sink in.

-mike

UPDATE: Oops, I wasn't "teh phreshest" after all - I wrote this over several days and awaited some feedback from the Red team before posting, looks like I wasn't first out of the gate on the Red Pull List after all - after writing the article but not posting it yet, Stuart posted yesterday (Saturday):

A few comments about workflow using REDCINE. - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

...and discusses "pull list" in context of Red. Drat, not first at it after all.

He talks about:

-generating pull list from EDL/XML/AAF after editorial complete
-pull list is just the final list of selects for re-export at final online res
-cropping, scaling, changing color values can be done (original color values saved)
-other clever nifty uses of the "look" metadata up and down the production chain
-ongoing discussions with other vendors to use this metadata - sounds promising

Read on, this is only from the first post in the thread which I'm sure will grow.

Other posters immediately pick up on the obvious need for subclips - what if you had an hour long take (interview, doc, etc.) and only need 5 seconds of it? You wouldn't want to reconvert the whole shot, just the selection you used in your timeline.

Ideally, you could generate a new EDL/XML/AAF that would help you rebuild your online file. REALLY ideally, since this is all file based, it could be done via distributed rendering and would create the online file automatically via script assist to control the NLE once all the files were cooked to online res.

I'm posting/commenting/discussing over there as well.

Gratuitous Plug - I've already started doing some consulting for folks interested in small and large scale, Red based workflows - what equipment necessary, what storage and workflow options at different price, speed, and resolution points, etc. based on the preliminary info available and the specific needs of their proposed projects. If you'd like help in these or other high definition related areas, I am indeed available for consulting - mike at hdforindies d0t com.

-mike

While I was out in LA the other week, I had a chance to sit down and have lunch with Ted Schilowitz of Red the day after the LA screening and talk about the latest news and progress on the Red One camera. Without further ado, here's a transcript of the interview/conversation that I taped and later transcribed.

This is a monstrously long article, so if in a hurry you might just want to skip down to the Wrap Up/Bullet Points and/or my Conclusions/Analysis/Takeaway. (This also includes my own "state of Red" analysis, similar to what I did back in May after NAB.)

In any case, here we go, starting with my conversation with Ted:

Q: So Ted - how big is the team getting now that you guys are up to full steam?

A: We are definitely ramping up and continuing to do so....body count is not nearly as relevant as expertise count, The key team members count for a lot of bodies and keep us lean and super responsive to changing things for the better. We continue to morph and warp the team to their best ends, and that's why you're seeing the kind of progress you're seeing so quickly, and we still have these targets for end of the year builds.

(Ted also kept taking phone calls all through lunch - clearly a busy guy)

Q: Are end of year builds still as predicted?

A: Still looks like it is going to happen...that's week to week basically...we're continually charging ahead and working towards that, we have about a month/month and a half until Christmas break drops in on us

Q: End of year build plans: how many, how fast out?

A: Wait until mid-December and I'll have a much better feeling on how we're gonna do...it's a little too early on to say yet.

There's so much speculation about what we're doing...it's best for me to not add details until I'm ready to give you that...right now it would be speculation.

Q: My understanding is that you'll seed them out of house after you get comfortable inhouse - is this correct?

A: We'll be testing inhouse, the next step will be to increase the circle and the scope of the circle as to who gets to play. We've already started that with our test camera "Frankie" and David Stump. That was our first foray into letting some external trusted resources have a good sense of the ability of the sensor, and to cut through the speculation and just look at the actual facts and data, and get David to work his theory on what he sees and likes, and so far he's liking a lot.

A LOT of CML/ASC folks were at the screening yesterday, and as I understand it some pretty big names with some pretty big credits were there and watching, and gave some very favorable reviews to what we're up to...we're just going to continue down that path to try to make things better.

Q: Who are some of those brand name people?

A: Other than Dave (Stump), who is now public because we stuck his quote on our website and some files up on CML, and that's an active sub-community that is doing its own thing as we develop, positive/negative/whatever, it is good that people are talking and wanting to see what we are up to. Anybody else would be premature to say, in order to respect their anonymity until they are ready to talk publicly.

Q: Optical port - you've been talking about it, first time we've seen anything - is the plan to include the flash recording module with the camera and the optical port has to be bolted in place of it?

A: It'll definitely be either/or at this point in the development - it could change at any moment as we look at the logic of this - but current thoughts would be to have the flash module for onboard recording, replace it with the RAW port for uncompressed recording.

Q: ...and it'll be a "Unscrew & remove Red Flash, slap on and screw on optical port unit," right?

A: Yeah - it's targeted to be field swappable. The logic of what's included or not is still part of the development...so we just don't know the answer yet...that's the only valid answer - we know we're gonna have and offer both options, don't know what price, what's bundled, who wants what for their work environments, etc.

Q: So this is the high speed serial port earlier mentioned - what bus?

A: Not yet determined - I was discussing that this morning, it is still very much under development.

Q: What buses are you looking at? Fiber? Infiniband? That type of thing?

A: There's those, there's the 10 GigE route, Infiniband, you have multiple strands of 4 gig fiber, all those routes..all of which are in the engineering running...no clear winners/losers yet....we like the idea of open standards, we like being able to connect to multiple devices easily, letting 3rd parties build things that configure as needed and don't have to configure to a proprietary standard, so that you can use this and plug this into a post environment, take it so it doesn't just live with our rig, so that's where we are right now.

Q: So your current thinking is: Evaluating options, pick 1, that flavor coming out of this add on device, leaving the door open for new tech or market demand, correct?

A: Yes - that's the idea of it being modular - if form factor/logic/whatever changes...all kinds of things coming down the pipe - vast new development coming - lower cost, much more robust...etc. - it's just data pipes - the idea of not building it directly onto and totally locked onto the camera proper so that it CAN upgrade - similar concept to things that you'd think would be tough to upgrade - you want to give the logic of saying those pieces that are integral to the camera CAN be updated - like the sensor, for instance - so if X months or X years down the road after geting the 12 megapixel sensor out, our plan all along should be able to upgrade, if we do a next generation sensor, our plan all along and it holds to this day - you should be able to send it back to the factory (not a field swap) and upgrade the sensor (at whatever cost they decide - mike). If stuff changes you want to be able to be to, within the camera concept, as modular and upgradeable as possible - so if the raw port changes, you'll be able to upgrade it. You're just seeing where we are now - in a month it could look fundamentally different.

Q: So cost on it?

A: Everybody knows the price of the camera - the price has held. The logic is that everything is in line with that type of price structure - it won't be like "The camera is seventeen five, the RAW port is also seventeen five!" - we're NOT going to do that - that would be bad strategy! We are working hard to keep everything in line with a pricing model that makes the product accessible to lots of folks all over the world.

Q: REDRAIL & REDCAGE have changed - I noticed they look streamlined as compared to before, not quite so super-industrial and beefy looking. Have you set a price?

A: No price established as yet, just that it'll be in line with the pricing of the other accessories.

Q: I asked a question about how they were showing the rail and cage systems (REDRAIL and REDCAGE) as an all-in-one, and it looked like with both mounted the cage handles could get in the way (a new feature is that the cage arms can either be rubberized hand grips or the screw-in hole laden three sided angled pieces seen on red.com). It seemed to stick out pretty far towards your head when all kitted up - the new rubberized handles - what about flatter ones on the "your head" side when shoulder mount/hand held?

A: The cage theoretically is not really fundamentally designed for handheld shooting. You can use it for that, you can see we opened up a lot of that space - but ultimately if you're going to shoot handheld for long periods of time, you really wouldn't want the cage, just the rail.

There will be times you'd want to shoot handled with the cage - features, with fairly large crews that need lots of accessories. But shooting docs or something where you need to shoot all day handheld - sports or the like - you're likely not going to use the cage. There is still more work to be done on this front, for example on how you will mount accessories topside without the cage assembly... The bigger top plate with rails, depending on it's final design may or may not be able to go on without the cage, we'll see, and The I.D. team is working on small accessory plates that will do just that, (mount viewfinder, lcd, etc. without the cage) with minimal footprint requirements. We know how important it is to keep the camera profile as small as possible for certain shooting environments.

Q: That seems to presume the camera body is robust enough to handle those stresses.

A: Metal body is what we are working towards, final compositions of the types are being worked on as we speak so yes, it's designed to handle it. The camera body will be something designed for the rigors of shooting.

Q: All that new footage we saw yesterday - are you going to put new images up online?

A: Yes, that's the next step - not sure exactly when yet, but we will in a few days. It's coming - a lot of folks are already asking I'd imagine.

Q: New videos - put'em online?

A: Good question. Hmm.

Q: Sounds like that's an unknown.

A: Well, we just got through the presentation yesterday, so...now we've gotta start thinking about things after the fact that everyone wants to see...right now we've got the Juliet shot up and the girl blowing the bubble shot up - so we'll probably post one of those new ones up (as of Tuesday afternoon, those are down and two shots of new stuff ar up - mike).

Q: So just to ask it as it has been asked a zillion times since the presentation - why no outdoor, sunny with clouds, waving trees in broad daylight type of footage?

A: That's the next step in the process. From my perspective - loud and clear - I've heard it from so many sources - 'Stuff's looking awesome...the resolution is amazing, the range that we can see so far from what you've shown is amazing...but when do we get to see other stuff?' We're a small operation, working as hard as we can, working towards our engineering targets takes priority over everything else. That being said I clearly understand the desire to see the sensor doing it's thing with as many types of shooting as possible. It's all coming.

Q: What's the next public screening type event?

A: We don't have anything scheduled as of now. We've been pretty busy from September through...which is another reason why we don't have everything under the sun to show you guys yet. So we did IBC in September, then we did New York in October, then we did LA in November...so that's a pretty full plate considering we've still got to build the camera and get everything done. Screened the 4K stuff in New York to rave reviews, created another spike of interest. So I don't have another one scheduled officially yet.

Q: So is NAB the Next Big Thing for you guys?

A: Of course at NAB, definitely going to be at NAB. Other than that we don't know.

Q: ...or haven't decided it sounds like. Timeline - December assembly, start seeding to those to others in the January timeframe - is that right?

A: We want to hand it off to trained professionals...we're trained professionals on how to put it together...we want to put it in the hands of trained professional shooters. We'll shoot some stuff, and we are, and it looks pretty good, but getting guys like Dave Stump and some of the other guys from the ASC, there's been tons of people that have reached out to us from every scheme and every strata of production and post production, (I've gotten zillions of emails asking to hook folks up with Red as well to test shoot - mike) from the biggest biggest names in the industry, to the young up and comers who really embrace this revolution as we like to call it, the young guns that are going to take cinema to the next generation of people, and we think we are the tool to get them there. So you've got both sides of the coin - those guys that you definitely KNOW, reaching out to us - "We think what you're doing is great, we'd love to be a part of it, we'd love to help you test it, we'd love to help you prove it out." That's great. Adn then you've got the total underbelly guerilla next-gen guys, who'd love to be a part of it, who've got some cool projects, thoughts and ideas and want to prove all this stuff.  So hopefully that's what'll happen - it'll cultivate all that, all kinds of unique things proving out all the things people want to see in the month or so (after they start seeding units - mike)

Q: On the one hand - it's nice to have surprised everyone with Redcode, to have said "By the way, that thing you just saw? That was Redcode." So that if you didn't notice the difference then, at 4K in a theater on a 30ish foot screen, when are you going to notice/see/care about the difference...

A: Right, that was exactly the point...

Q: ...BUT it would have been nice to follow that up with another viewing once folks knew, or have done split screen or butterfly splits or something...

A: ...next steps in the process. Right. Exactly.

Q: That is one of the most common complaints I heard, that people felt you were being sneaky with it.

A: That's just Ted, I'm not being sneaky on purpose. We really don't think you can tell the difference, that's the amazing thing. But...it is interesting to a point, that maybe the next step in the process is not so much doing big public screening. This was the LA launch - didn't want it to get technical, I'll be talking about some of that in the Final Cut forum, plus the place was packed, we needed to get everybody out and get the next round of folks in, wasn't the place to do a 45 minute Q&A. But there are definitely places to discuss - the forums, your site, Jarred's site are all great places for that. And again, as we evolve as a company, from our development lab to an organization that has the resources to do some of this stuff - technical seminars, technical demonstrations, discussions of things like what you're saying - let's do a whole half day invitation to reservation holders - and other people that may want to come - on Redcode as it develops. Now what you saw is still very early on in the curve, and it is already looking pretty remarkable, so when we are ready to really sit down, and say "Let's look at what we're up to." we'll do it.

(I think showing something now as a "here's your first taste" was good - not bad for their first publicly shown dev code - in retrospect, if they WERE showing butterfly splits etc., that would make folks tend to think that would be indicative of final quality - that's what would stick in their minds, however good it looked at that point.

...but I did feel a little "Hey, wait a minute, go back!" at the time. -mike)

What I can say is that we've done that internally with some people that I would consider very influential within the industry, that pay a lot of attention to compression, and understand what it is and what it means because, they're trying to figure out archiving strategies and they're trying to figure out a lot of stuff on a very very large scale. They've seen it, and they couldn't tell the difference, and this was is a very high end screening and grading environment with a properly set up and calibrated 4k projector, and full black in the room....and that's amazing. We all did some serious poking and prodding on those images and at some point you really reach to see if you can see differences, and start thinking... "maybe a very slight difference here, or there" but the fact that thats the level you have to dive into when you compare uncompressed to REDCODE at this early stage of it's development... well you get the point.

Q: So in terms of testing volunteers, I'd imagine you're list is all full, right?

A: Well, not to say we don't want people to reach out to us, we've been as open as I believe we can be, while still pushing down our path and making sure we get things done on time and on target to be very communicative to people that reach out to us and talk to us, and say "We're interested in this, we want to be a part of your various beta programs, we want to be a part of what you're doing." I don't want to limit that in any way shape or form. I certainly can't get back to everybody personally - I do my best! I already spend about 18 hours a day sitting on my email client along with all the other engineering tasks. It's important for people to know that we're listening, and we're doing our best to pay attention, and you can't respond to everybody and everything, but everything has merit, and everything is at least attempted to be read through and listened to.

Q: REDRAM: updates?

A: There actually haven't been a lot of updates on it other than that we've been focused on the digital magazine and the flash, because those are the primary recording concepts and where we think most of are efforts should be applied. So you may not need 80 or 90 MB/sec which would be a whole bunch of RAM inside that magazine enclosure, and because the cost of that would be so much more than a spinning drive by a factor of 6:1, 7:1, 8 to who knows...it could be quite a bit more, that could be part of the "subject to change" - it could be "You know what, we don't think we need this anymore, or if we do its down in the priority list now." so it won't not ship when the camera ships, it might ship 6 months after the camera ships, if we discover a need for it...a lot of this is going to have to do with an active feedback loop from people using the camera - "Thing worked great, it did what it needed to do, it works the way it needs to work." and then you make enhancements. That's part of being a development company, you don't just stop developing once you start shipping the camera, you continue to enhance and tweak and change and work everything out.

Q: (I interject - I've seen cage go through three major shifts)

A: ...yeah - and we ain't done yet!

Q: REDRAID? What's going on with that?

A: Let's talk about what people think REDRAID is, there's a bit of confusion there. There is development discussions on two drive configuration onboard, so it is the digital magazine times two - double thickness, there's power draw, weight, size and other things to be concerned about, , but it does seem logical and valuable if we end up seeing value in going to a lower compression ratio, and of course for higher frame rates. That's the RAID configuration of the digital magazine, designed for mounting on the REDRAIL system or directly on camera with an adaptor plate.

Then there is the offboard REDRAID, the large array of hard drives to record the uncompressed RAW. That's a little further out - it's in the concept stages - we're also going to be relying on third parties and other things that fit into that smaller part of the market. We're focusing on where we think the largest part of the market wants to use our product, we think that'll be REDCODE onboard. There's some good products out there that are uncompressed 4k capable data recorders that'll want to link up and record and capture the ultra high end of the market that wants uncompressed to an external device.

Q: As for the camera itself, it looks like you're doing mini-HD-SDIs onboard?

A: Actually, there's a specific name for those connectors - they are the same as Kona3 - what a shock there! They are "one point oh slash two point three" (1.0/2.3) connectors, not to be confused with mini-BNC connectors although many do confuse them. It is the smallest physical connector that is robust enough that has a positive locking mechanism. If you have a Kona3, you know exactly why it is cool - it is small, no twist lock to struggle with, and it is starting to become an industry standard. There's some big routers being used in sports trucks that are now able to get a much larger foot print of cable I/O by using these connectors. We see this as the future. (As to why) - size and trying to break free of legacies that have been in there for long periods of time and no one's been bold enough to take a stand - if you want to push forward, there are so many advantages to going to a smaller connector. Of course you'll have pigtails and dongles and whatnot to go to existing cables. We're doing the same thing with audio with mini-XLR - not the big fat XLR connectors. Size and modern product consideration rules the day in our world.

(There's always a line there in terms of needing an adaptor I have to keep track of, not standardized cables. I hate that my Quad G5 has a special power cord, and ONLY that cord works with that computer, for example - mike) There's definitely a trade-off - the idea is to keep the camera as small and robust and light as possible, so if you just had a couple of those connectors, there may not be much impact - but there's the inside impact - the internal plate to mount those connectors, there's a logic beyond the front face of what you're seeing as to why we made those choices.

Q: User Interface on camera - when might we see something? We've heard about focus assist, exposure goodies etc.

A: You'll hopefully see the first view of that Dec/Jan as we get the first cameras built, that'll be some of the first things we show - "Here's our camera, here's how it stands now, here's how it works."

Q: I'd heard some talk on the boards about user interface options - how big/deep/priority is it?

A: It is in continual discussion on our end, it is a big priority, I would say we want to go as deep as the user community wants, but we don't want to make it so convoluted and complex that people get frightened off. One of the things we're continually working on is the metaphors of what our camera is, and who is going to use it and why, and not get bogged down in "Now I have to read this 72 page white paper to figure out what to do here." This camera is designed for shooters. It's designed for people to go work with. If you look at everything we're doing and how we're building it, the logic is simplicity and then drill down. As opposed to the flip side of "let me drill down for 2 1/2 weeks to figure out what you really wanted to tell me in the first place which was push push these two buttons and this is what you get out of it." There's obviously going to be reasons for both. We want things to be simple and exposed to as many users as possible to get the functionality they need out of it, and then obviously for the post production professionals, or the people looking at how they take all this material shot on Red and push it through a post production workflow, that's where things like Redcine workflow comes in, the stuff that Graeme and Rob and that team are working on.

Q: Price - you talk about how proud you are that the price is still holding...

A: I am happy it is still holding...

Q: ...would it be fair to presume that it is not guaranteed to hold when orders re-open at whatever point in the future when they do?

A: It'd be fair to presume that, like it is fair to presume that anything can change at a moment's notice with the project. As we get closer to the finish line, we're continually learning about what it is going to take to deliver this product at a certain price point. We have a certain level of commitment to the reservation holders. Without putting a hard iron clad guarantee - because that's what we've always set out not to do so that people aren't dissapointed - we're going to work very hard for those close to 1100 reservation holders all over the world that are locked into this then, to hold to that price point, and keep the accessories at a price point where they can afford them, that it makes logical sense for them to own them - we want them to have a full featured system. We don't want them to feel that they could only afford half of it, or only afford just this piece and that piece but not a full kit. As we move through the next couple months of our existence, we decide what our next strategy is.

After the October 31st deadline, when we took a lot of last minute reservations, It was a bit of a perfect storm - we showed at IBC, then in New York, then it was time to close the reservations. We did it (took reseravations for $1000) to gauge interest, there was no pre-thoughtout marketing angle to it - "Are we on the right track? Are we building the right thing at the right price point? Are we doing the right stuff? Who really wants in?" that's what we wanted to see. We saw a huge range - people from all over the map - in the kind of customers that want this camera. It proved our point - now we can stop the reservations. Since that date a lot of peoople are calling and emailing and fighting me, they saw it in LA and a whole new rash of people that wish they had a reservation. All I can say is "things change around here, so keep a close eye."

Q: I heard on forums about march or april that it would open up again...

A: That's just forum talk - we don't have a strategy yet, and that's just completely honest about where we are. We just got done with showing the stuff in LA, we got done with the reservations a week and a half ago, we don't have a strategy in place. As we get closer to a ship date and start getting a feel "Yes, we're going to hit this target, or be ahead or behind." At that point we'll start taking pre-orders for after the reservations holders. Now a different strategy for once we have a targeted ship date. If folks are comfortable to pre-order at that point, we'll have a strategy for that. I'm telling you as it's coming out of my head. Whether it is going to actually happen that way is yet to be determined, but I think that's a pretty sound strategy. We want people that are as interested but may have missed the reservation deadline but want to get in on the action to be able to get in another, secondary queue.

Q: So, when you're ready, you might say "Starting in two weeks we'll begin taking pre-orders" or something like that to give folks a head's up?

A: Yeah, maybe. And of course all the accessories or any new pieces that we create, existing reservation holders always get first dibs. That's what we want to adhere to as best we can, to reward those guys and gals and companies who are taking the ride and got on early.

Q: Once you do start shipping - you've got a good idea of what the demand is, your 1100 plus other interest - now that you've got some idea of volume expectations, how fast are you going to be making these?

A: I think we're going to build and ship a lot of cameras is what I think!

Q: Any idea how long to catch up on the 1100?

A: I have an idea, but I don't want to raise expectations higher or lower than they should be other than as we get closer, we'll have better estimates, and we'll do our best to update people. But we're planning on producing lots of these things - in one of our letters I sent out to the group we want these cameras in customers hands as much as you (the reservation holders). We want that as much as you do. Our goal is not to just ramp up and trickle these out, our goal is to GET THESE THINGS OUT TO THE WORLD. And we'll do our best. These are all hard questions to answer.

Q: Expecting hundreds of units a month once you get going?

A: I would hope so.

Q: Optical port - since you can't do flash/optical simultaneously, will you be able to (maybe that'll change Ted says!). At present level of development it is one or the other. Would it still be hot on all the other ports?

A: HD-SDI and the others? Yeah, that's the idea. They will be hot for monitoring while in RAW or RGB mode or capture to single link or dual link HD-SDI recorders when the camera is in RGB mode.

Q: Run to Red Drive and optical port simultaneously?

A: Yes (got confirmation after the interview).

Q: I think I'm behind the curve on this: what's the deal on putting still lenses on the Red camera? Mounts etc.? I see lots of forum talk about this as a fair accompli, but no hard data from Red on it.

A: Well, that's about all we know too - there will be an adaptor to go from 35 still to 35 PL mount lenses.

Q: I don't see the big bolt circle on the front anymore...

A: There's a standard PL mount locking ring...yes, designed for 35mm PL mount lenses, the bolt circle in front has changed, it is most likely an adaptor for use with 35mm still lenses. We are in the midst of the optical front end design right now, so we're at the figuring out stage on that front.

Q: So there'll be some kind of a still lens mount adaptor, but what form factors?

A: There's the Nikon, Canon, and others, they have their own pin-out configuration which at this point in time, although we see a future pathway for electronic PL, those 35 still lenses won't have any way to talk to the camera yet. So the older Canon lenses are what you're going to want to use - manual aperture and focus because the newer ones are designed for electronic operation.

(interruption - waiter stuff)

Q: You said Nikon, Canon, and will have an adaptor...I'm guessing you'll say it'll be the popular options.

A: The newer generation of Canon are all automatic which are controlled by the camera electronics - there's no way to manually control on the lens itself, so you'd have to use older generation lenses that have a manual iris.

Q: ...and you'll have some kind of mount adaptor in the future...schedule and price TBD.

A: Yeah.

Q: Random techie question I heard from an experienced shooter - backfocus stuff and complementary metals for thermal adaptation issues?

A: Yes, that issue is addressed.

Q: But with an adaptor, you're not doing the whole front plate removal...

A: I don't know the answer to that, it is changing day to day

Q: Redcode - changes?

A: Yes as it stands after recent development we've gone from 10 bit to 12 bit linear, which buys us a lot, you should have Graeme give you the details of the advantages having over 4000 color steps instead of 1024.

(I did - that's a separate interview)

Q: Data rate targets - with the move to 12 bit, the data rates are holding?

A: Yes, and we're ecstatic with the results.

Q: How do you feel Red One will compare with the exisitng D-cinema options presently on the market?

A: This isn't so much me speaking as the community speaking through me - what people have told me, and why I've reguritated in the presentations, what they're looking at is a whole new breed of animal. It doesn't look like anything they've ever seen before. The closest thing is if they took the best high end digital SLR on the market and it could shoot motion pictures, and gets that creamy, milky, very cinematography like look...it doesn't look like video. As we continue to move forward, we are building each day less and less of a "video camera" and more and more of a next generation digital imaging system that looks, as I've heard it described, as film without grain. If you were shooting very low ASA film properly exposed, and it kept beautiful colorimetry and depth of field and all the characteristics, has this creamy, rich, beautiful filmic look without the film grain. So nothing I've seen (and I've spent a lot of time looking at digital projection around town looking at the other cameras in action shooting big budget movies and indie films and whatnot, and they look nothing like what we're doing from my perspective. They don't have the resolution number one, they don't have the sense of tonality, the sense of characteristics that we're seeing in these early tests. I think that is just going to increase and get better and better over time. I'm super excited every time we look at this stuff, and one of the nice perks of the job is that I get to hang out in 4K theaters and 4K screening rooms to see what we're shooting and experimenting with, and I get charged up every single time, I'm not jaded at all to this, to my eyes, to Jim's eyes, and others on the team are doing it a lot these days, we love every minute of it, we wanna see more, we wanna shoot more, we're lining up resources to do that. You're seeing the first glimpses of that with Dave Stump and the charts and greenscreen stuff, we can't wait ot get to the next stage of our development, shooting all the time. Not quite there yet, but we're getting there.

Q: Flash ingest?

A: there will be some kind of card reader, or the slot will go directly into an Express34 slot on your Mac or PC laptop.

Q: If you have some incompatible hardware, or need realtime, you can use that realtime industry standard bus to use the camera as a deck - I need 9 pin control to use the camera as a deck.

A: Would it be better not to tie up the camera? (and then my recorder ran out of space and stopped) His answer boiled down to they don't have that port on the camera, and aren't likely to add it for such an edge case. However, he was open to the possibility of making a piece of hardware that might fulfill that need, but the pricing would be indicative of the size of the market for it...thus likely pricey.

=============

WRAP UP/BULLET POINTS

Price - still holding, but no promises - reservation holders get first dibs on new accessories

Ship date - no new info

Optical port - the bus topology is as yet undetermined, but presently they think it'll be a field swappable module - replace the Flash memory recording unit with the high speed port unit

-footage - looking good so far, have some new stills up on red.com, full size, uncompressed test frames up on cinematography.net

-Redcode & Redcine - see the workflow article

-still lens mounts - no hard data, but there will be a solution, likely an adaptor for manual control lenses (no pinout support for newer electronically controlled lenses). No specifics on brands/types supported as yet, but it seems like older, manual (non-electronically controlled) Canons will be a safe bet, that's what he talked about most

-REDRAIL/REDCAGE evolving, getting lighter and more modular/flexibly configurable, ENG/field shooting config shown in LA

-plan is to get prototypes into hands of real shooters to evaluate and shoot with the camera in the January timeframe

-for future purchasers - will come a time they'll take pre-orders, TBD

-unclear how long it'll take'em to fullfill reservation holders' orders

-Redcode - showed it in LA, didn't mean to be sneaky, just wanted to give a preview of what it looked like so far while under development

-Red will definitely will be attending NAB, but don't know what their next public event will be between now and then

-Redflash - sounds like there will be a card reader for it

-Ted's very optimistic about how Red One will compare with the other d-cinema cameras out there

-no firm estimte at this time as to shipping date, nor how long from that date until reservation pre-orders are filled and new orders could be filled

-new videos & CAD renders (stills are up from the latest new footage) are coming to the website

-they are still open to new folks expressing interest for testing (but I would say you should probably have a good reason to stand out from the crowd, since there is a crowd expressing interest - mike)

-mini-connectors to standard buses - it'll be XLR and HD-SDI, but with mini-connectors to them - pigtails/adaptors will be required to interface with industry standard cabling


OPINION/ANALYSIS/TAKEAWAY:

The maximum flexibility modular idea is still holding - from the upgradeable sensor, to the field swappable high speed port, etc. - it is still a modular, upgradeable camera....and that is extremely good news. One of the things I was worried about was whether the modular, upgradeable, expandable nature of the camera would get hemmed in by time or engineering constraints.

So far, there are only a few areas where I feel Red could be dinged for fudging. While they've always said, loud and clear, no promised ship dates, all specs subject to change, their announced intent has drifted a bit.

One is the ship date - as I understand it, they made it sound like they camera would be shipping by year's end, now they are putting first units together for internal then external testing, and the last guesstimate Jim gave for shipping to reservation holders was a March/April timeframe.

The second is the recording modality, specifically frame rates - they were very big and clear on the capability of the camera to record 60fps full aperture (4 or 4.5K), and up to 120fps windowed down (16mm sized aperture). While the SENSOR and the CAMERA are still capable of that, it now appears that those speeds will only be capable of being recorded offboard - the onboard processing can only handle up to 4K RAW @30p or 2K RGB @ 60fps. In a forum discussion, Stuart laid out the full list of what will be possible with the compressed Redcode stuff:

Internal / Local : (REDCODE to RED-FLASH or RED-DRIVE etc)

4K RAW @ 1 - 30fps
2K RAW @ 1 - 60fps
2K RGB @ 1 - 60fps
1080p @ 1 - 60fps (Generate 1080i if desired from a 1080p recording)
720p @ 1 - 120fps

(There's Redcode RAW compressed, or, um, just raw RAW uncompressed. This is for compressed)

...so that the only way to shoot the maximum frame rate (120fps) at the maximum quality onboard will limit you to 720p resolution (not 2K), most likely derived from the windowed sensor at 16mm aperture (or will it have to window down even further to get that 120 fps? Not clear as of this writing, will update when I get a confirm).

To get the maximum frame rate, you'd need to use the high speed optical port, which they haven't settled on a bus topology for as yet. Ted mentioned 10 gigabit Ethernet was in the running, I certainly like that idea - it is a single bus (not multiple bundled connections, like twin 4 gig fiber would have to be) that is fast enough, and while it isn't mainstream yet, it clearly is going to be moreso in the future, promising decreasing costs. I could envision it on the motherboard of Mac Pros and high end PCs in a few years, and the cost of the add-in cards is sure to drop, as whatever the next flavor of ethernet always has. If the port is that, then the recording devices obviously have to have that, and then opens the door to things like making the external recorders interface back in editorial/post via ethernet of any flavor - perhaps as an FTP server or somesuch? That would certainly simplify things in post if you could connect at whatever Ethernet speed you could support. Ted mentioned nothing along those lines, this is my own conjecture, but I sure like the thought of it.

The CAMERA can still shoot 120 fps 2K, but you can't record it onboard with the accessories they are discussing openly at this time. And since there hasn't been a clear answer as to timetable on REDRAID & REDRAM, that means it is sounding likely that the camera may ship in a way that there aren't recording options for 4K+ @ 60fps nor 2K @ 120fps. Speaking of which...

REDRAM and REDRAID seem to be slipping off the roadmap (or at least further down) - it would appear they are thinking maybe they aren't needed, and if they are, they'll ship well after the camera does. A new product seems to be sneaking in here - the REDRAID may be morphed from a big box of hard drives for uncompressed (clearly their stated intent at NAB & IBC, trust me on that one) into a small RAID for compressed recording on camera. But in any case, don't look to RED to make an uncompressed recorder right away - they'll be looking to third parties to do that up front, with theirs as a follow-on product well after Red One ships....if they do produce it at all. I do trust that they'll make sure there are options available eventually for high speed recording - it just may not be theirs at first, with their kind of pricing structure (other options are over $60K).

A multi-drive recorder for onboard, however, makes a LOT of sense - it buys us those high frame rates back potentially, albeit compressed. However, based on the quality of the frames that I've analyzed (yet another upcoming article), I think that is going to be OK. If REDRAID becomes a multi-drive unit for onboard 60/120 fps compressed recording, and a third party (maybe Codex? S.two?) becomes the field acquisition tool for uncompressed recording, and later Red comes out with their own, I'd be OK with that.

Red contines to eek out new imagery online, definitely managing their marketing throttle to keep the mix lean - folks are always hungry for more. From a marketing perspective, it is working for them. Folks always hungry for more, but are getting a little frustrated trying to see exactly what they want (sky/clouds shots, latest footage/body renders online), but then again...the camera is still 4/5 months MINIMUM from ship date - what other vendor gives this kind of access and details this early in the development? It is kind of funny how some folks are accusing Red of being opaque and withholding, yet they are more open and transparent than a lot of other vendors have been at equivalent stages of development.

But as of this writing (Saturday, Nov. 25th) they still haven't posted any new videos from the latest shoot stuff shown in LA, nor new renderings, and it has been 11 days (10 days since my interview with Ted). (Update - Jarred points out the Dave Stump/CML stuff...yeah yeah that's good, the techie half of the equation.) We wait, we wait...perhaps they are busy, perhaps it is still so in flux they want to wait and post finals, perhaps they want to wait until it is DONE and have a better surprise/splash (from a marketing perspective) when we see the final units perhaps in January publicly revealed? I don't know. Or maybe they are just busy and not thinking about it nearly that hard - Ted gives the impression on a lot of things that they are just head down trying to get the camera done, not thinking about these non-fundamental issues right now.

The decision to go with mini connectors for audio and video (and perhaps other) interconnects - it is definitely a tradeoff. By making the connectors smaller, it keeps the body size smaller, both internally and externally. The trade-off is that you'll need adaptors or pigtails for all your gear, and that isn't what is out in the field at present. In general/in theory I'd much rather go with standardized connectors - it is like my Quad G5 power cable - it is special, unique only to that box. I have 6 other computers in the house that can use any of the (literally) bucket full of standard plugs...but I have to keep track of that ONE special one for that particular piece of gear. Now imagine being on set and not having that one cable, or not enough of them for the task at hand. Same thing for the adaptors - my laptops have a mini-DVI connector - it is great that they CAN connect to a DVI monitor, but I have to keep track of that adaptor and always travel with it. I've saved some other people's butts at tradeshows when I had mine and they'd forgotten theirs. Perhaps in 5-10 years, the mini-connectors will be standard all over and Red will have been prescient, but for now it is a hassle to be dealt with, even though it has the benefits of keeping the camera small. A benefit we all like, but a "Yeah yeah that's great, but it is still a hassle." So I can agree with the decision, but I'm not thrilled with it.

Then there is still the risk of slipping ship date - as I said in May, any project this large and complex starts becoming prey to being victimized by the sheer scale of it - there are inherent linearities and dependencies in some aspects of the design & engineering and manufacturing processes. There is risk of delay in every component of the camera in each of these three categories. Multiply all the parts by all the risks, and as ANY product from ANY manufacturer faces increasing risk of delays as the product gets more complex. Fold in all of the new technology, the never been done, the never been done all together in one product aspects, and the risks increase even further. While the Red team has a lot of experience at prior companies, and has excellent resources and CAD driven, fast turnaround dev processes, there are risks of delays. So while I will be first to hoist a glass and cheer them if they ship as they hope in the March/April timeframe, if it is delayed until June or July I won't be surprised. I won't be happy about it (as I have an order in myself for one), but I won't be surprised. If it gets to be fall and they haven't shipped, I'll be getting cranky, for sure.

The risks beyond that would be in the area of QC - is it buggy? Is it robust for fie