HD For Indies

I threw a few comments about capturing content via analog from living room to studio (HD-DVD and digital cable) on my AppleTV Hacker blog. In short - the analog hole is alive and well, but does imply a quality loss.

And takes a looooooong time to encode/process. Many many times realtime.

Labels: acquisition, AppleTV, AppleTVHacker, consumer, DRM, Final Cut, hardware, HD-DVD, HDTV, home theater, how done

Just got this email from Apple:

To Our Valued Apple Customer:


Thank you for ordering the new Apple TV, an easy to use and fun way to
wirelessly play all your favorite iTunes content from your Mac or PC on your
widescreen TV.

Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we
now expect to begin shipments in mid-March, not in February as originally
anticipated.

You may check the status of your order any time by visiting our online order
status website at http://www.apple.com/orderstatus.

A shipment notification, with tracking information, will be emailed to you as
soon as your order is shipped. There is no need to contact us unless you
choose to change or cancel your order.

We appreciate your business and thank you for shopping at the Apple Store!

Sincerely,
The Apple Store Team


...which fits into rumors and prior behavior - Apple announces Neat New Product at MWSF, says it'll ship in a month or two, then a delay occurs.

I've been out of pocket today - had a meeting this morning, went for a run, got the text message that SXSW Music wristbands were available and waited in line for 2 1/2 hours for my out of town friends to get their wristbands (see what a good friend I am? SEE???). The line wrapped around a city block, probably 700 or 800 people in front of me when I got there. Then walked back to where I'd parked my car blocks away and dropped in on my old boss and friend, Mark Rolston, creative director at frogdesign (my old employer). Turns out he's been busy working on his home theater setup too at the same time I had, putting in a 1080p projector and a drop down silver screen. Seems 1080p is on a lot of people's brains. He's always had a killer setup, buying a70+ inch HDTV set many many years ago when that was direly expensive. He now has a Xbox360 w/HD-DVD option and PS3 to play back all high def media. According to his research, the PS3 is both the cheapest and best Blu-ray player - interesting! I'd expected it to be hampered in some fashion, but apparently not.

As for my own home setup, I finally got almost everything hooked up, took 4 runs to the to-be-unnamed electronics shop to FINALLY get the right combo of crimper, stripper, cable and BNC ends to finish up some wiring to get the studio all talking to itself and to the living room at the same time, but it is 90% of the way there (one box can only do single not dual link until I make some more cables.)

All stories mentioned last week are still pending, have some interesting paying workflow consulting to do, and a review to finish as well for an upcoming magazine article.

-mike

Labels: Apple, AppleTV, HDTV

The No-Name Brand Behind the Latest Flat-Panel Price War - New York Times

Cheap TV brand (Olevia) coming on strong, pushing down prices on name brands so that they remain competitive.

Labels: HDTV

Wired News: The High-Def FAQK

Funny/cynical look at what's up with HDTV.

Labels: HDTV

...so I've already covered that HDMI is a cousin of DVI, and that a DVI to HDMI connector can successfully drive a 1920x1080 HDTV in 1080i mode (at least my KDS-60A2000 that I have).

It tends to overscan, which is a pain, but then I found this:



At least with this display, you can click off the Overscan button (which defaults to on on my setup) and it'll substantially crop in the image on the HDTV - too much in fact, giving me about 3/4" top and bottom of black, and 1 1/2 to 2 inches on the sides.

The SIZE isn't so much a big deal, but the HDTV is now scaling to non one-to-one pixels, so the image is softer and harder to read. So in situations where you NEED mneus, there is a solution. If you don't care, it's sharper but no menus.

It'd be nice is there were an AppleScript to toggle it directly without going to the Sustem Prefs & Displays - anybody know how to do that?

Ideally map it to an F-key to switch back and forth (F8?)

-mike

Labels: HDTV, home theater, tips

Ideal Front Row experience - AppleTV, older G5, or Mac Mini?

Just got off the phone with my lifelong friend Charlie Wood (who just opened public beta on his Google/iCal syncing software), he wanted to know how well Front Row worked with the computer hooked up to the HDTV - he was thinking about using a computer as a DVD player and Front Row driver hooked up to his high res projector.

Turns out it works pretty well!

While the top pulldown menu is clipped off the screen (If I select About This Mac, I see "bout this Mac", and about one pixel above those words), and the dock is clipped such that the System Prefs icon clips one pixel below the grey Apple logo on this particular set (WHY does HDTV overscan? Why why why?), Front Row works fine - none of the text ever clips, everything is safely inset enough.

And popping in a DVD, MAN it scales nicely! I recall reading an article somewhere not too long ago that graphics card scale video for DVD much Much MUCH better than even the expensive DVD players, and I believe it *. Popping in Flyboys (only rented because shot on Genesis), the intro text scales VERY nicely.

* - I'm writing this line from the couch, watching the text appear 10 feet away on the 60 inch set running at 1920x1080, and I can read it in default 9 point Monaco. It could be sharper, but I can read it just fine

Charlie was thinking about using an AppleTV as his primary DVD watching device. I pointed out that the AppleTV doesn't have an optical drive, and he asked if it could stream it and I said I didn't think so, it only streams H.264 AFAIK.

Then I mentioned I was already planning on running an HDMI from the studio from the Multibridge Extreme, then I thought about running it from a standard DVI port - I have a Gefen DVI switcher that keeps both ports "hot and live" at all times, so I could route the output from a G5 here to the living room.

Then I thought about using my eldest G5 (a dual 2.0) and putting it in the closet that is behind the HDTV behind a wall. I could use a DVI to HDMI cable, run it through the holes already in the floors and through the basement (thankfully I can stand up down there), use my Kensington IR remote that has the IR receiver on a USB cable to remote the whole thing to the living room. That and a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse if I want it and I'm off.

I'd been debating putting a server in that closet anyway, but I'd need to put a fan or some kind of ventilation in the ceiling in there, buy all these long run cables etc., so the price goes up pretty quickly from there.

Then Charlie and I were talking about what WOULD work best - the AppleTV is neat and relatively cheap at $300, but the small 40 GB drive is a limitation - I already have 50+GB of MP3 files from all my ripped CDs. I'd been idly debating bulk re-ripping them to ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) that is about half the size of uncompressed - I'd end up with hundreds of GB of audio files.

Front Row can ALREADY stream audio and video from a remote machine - I did that the other week - I'd downloaded an episode of Lost I hadn't seen on a G5 in the studio, but wanted to watch the show in bed. So I left iTunes running on the G5, made sure Sharing was on, took my MacBook in the bedroom, hooked it up via s-video and fired up Front Row, and have you noticed that Front Row has a "Shared Videos" option under Videos? That's right, you can stream video just fine, even over my first generation Apple Airport (the flying saucer model) and it ran without a hitch. A little slow buffering at first, and fast forward/remind was utterly screwy/almost broken, but for basic viewing it was fine.

But the G5 is big and hot and heavy and would require some finagling to get it nearby. I don't want it in the living room because it is huge and the fans are loud. So what else?

A Mac Mini.

The HDTV has a HDMI in port, and I'm using a GMA950 based video card in the MacBook right now on that screen, same as the Mini has (or had, has it been upgraded?). A Mac Mini with an external hard drive starts to make a lot of sense - put all your media content on a fanless FireWire drive, and hook up that tiny Mini in the living room as an A/V component. Watch DVDs that'll look better than most players, use Front Row for downloaded videos as well (and for more than just H.264 encoded ones, a limitation of AppleTV), play CDs, MP3s, watch pictures, etc. Of course, that'll be about $800 for a Mini to do that, which is pretty expensive, but it'll do a LOT of stuff, and is pretty much infinitely expandable as far as storage goes - just get a bigger (750GB now, 1TB coming this year) hard drive, or just daisy chain additional ones. So $1000 for the Mini and an external hard drive for a great DVD player and Front Row experience. (Edit - base one I'd use is $600 not $800 - Charlie would want it for a usable machine, I just want a media box, and I could use that $200 to get a MUCH bigger drive).

OH OH OH OH - only in an email somebody sent me about HD-DVD players did it dawn on me - DUH - I have a HD-DVD player that will read DVD-R discs, and I have a DVD-R burner and DVD Studio Pro that will create red laser HD-DVDs!!! I'll be tsting that SOON, trust me!

I see one hitch in that process - I have a dual layer burner in my Quad G5, but I THINK it only does dual layer DVD+R discs, not dual layer DVD-R discs, and I noted support of DVD-R but not DVD+R mentioned in my HD-DVD player manual. Darn it if so, but single layer still lets me test a lot of stuff and ideas.

This makes me want to be able to route outputs from the studio in here in a variety of ways:
-each machine has HD component output - route that
-each machine has DVI output - route that as well?
-each machine can send HD-SDI to the Multibridge Extreme, then I can send HDMI out from that as well

In the living room, I've got HD-DVD and cable box taking over the two HDMI inputs - seems like I'll need an HDMI switcher then to flip between studio, HD-DVD, and AppleTV input.

OK - what else? There's so much to think about with all these toys.

AppleTV

PROS: CHEAP. Quiet. Plug & play. Small, sits in A/V rack nicely. Totally quiet. Cover Flow

CONS: If I do the AppleTV (still have one on order), it'll be interesting to doodle with but limited in a variety of ways:
-limited storage (but can stream from elsewhere)
-can't play anything but H.264 video
-no DVD playback
-720p24 playback MAX - no 720p60, no 1080p24 or 1080i60
from Apple TV Tech Specs page: "Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile"
-so CAN attach my 1080p/i capable display
-so how to efficiently navigate LARGE music/video/media collections?

Convert an existing G5

PROS:
-can attach to TV for Front Row (with available patch/hack)
-can also use as a serious server in the house for all other files & media
-extensible storage - throw a 750GB drive in there and that'll hold me for a while!
-can run non-H.264 video content
-can play DVDs very nicely (just gotta put it in the box in other room around corner)
-if I go to the trouble, should be a pretty awesome A/V experience. Plus, my server can run a 1920x1080 screen!

CONS:
-expensive install - gotta get long DVI-HDMI cables, long USB, Bluetooth keyboard and mouse (and Bluetooth upgrade for G5) if I want more control over it (and will they work through a wall anyway?)
-plus I need to ventilate that closet - a thermostat driven fan that leads to the attic? The attic gets over 120 degrees in the summer Texas heat - I'm pushing air into there?
-no CoverFlow
-gotta buy Bluetooth keyboard/mouse, will they work through wall?

Buy a Mac Mini
-base model is $600 - for $200 more, you get 80 not 60GB drive, slightly faster processor, and a DVD burner not Combo drive - but this this utilization, who cares? I'd have to add at least 512MB of RAM to keep it zippy, though

PROS
-fast box, fully featured, good experience
-practically unlimited storage capacity - just keep adding FireWire drives
-small, fits in A/V space just fine

CONS:
-priciest up front cost of all the options
-decent but not outstanding graphics performance - but does that matter?
-no Cover Flow, tougher to navigate large libraries, gotta buy Bluetooth keyboard/mouse to be effective

What else?

I should probably break down the costs for each and ponder the pros/cons some more.

This is total DIY HDforIndies project - what do you folks think? Please chime in with your thoughts!

-mike

update - I've learned that I need to get an OTA antenna for better reception of the major networks, 19.2 mbit vs 10-12 mbit on my expensive digital HDTV cable (harrumph). The Terk was recommended, I just don't know whether I need the $30ish passive or the $100ish amplified model.

Also, Charlie Wood followed up with a link to MacHTPC.com, a site all about using Macs as home theater PCs, and I'm sure they've been thoroughly all over all the issues I've been wrangling with. I'll be reading up on stuff over there. I want a home theater box, a server, and possibly a gaming platform out of it, so I'm not a typical user here.

-mike

PS - sitting here all day tethered to the HDTV on laptop, I can definitely appreciate the idea of wireless HDMI.

Labels: HDTV, original, studio, think

Mike's first thoughts on his HDTV, HD-DVD player, and HD cable, in rambly blog fashion.

thoughts on new HDTV:

-I got my Sony KDS-60A2000 HDTV delivered. It is a 60" SXRD (Sony's flavor of LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon)), then I got the Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player, and Time Warner Cable's HD cable box

-setting up wasn't as bad as I thought - not as many initial "must decide" decisions to be made, but a ton of color correction choices, mostly involving turning "enhancements" OFF.

I found this handy page that has cnet's settings they'd clearly spent time coming up with to optimize viewing.

The default "Vivid" settings, especially in a bright room, are far too contrasty, oversharpened, and saturated - looks good in the showroom, but a guy with dark hair and a dark suit is a black blob all too often, especially on modern shows like CSI with that high contrast look.

There are three presets - Vivid, Standard, and Custom, which you can tweak as needed - I'm thinking I'll use a modified Standard setting for day and Custom for night.

Nice features - you can fine tune sharpening, edge enhancement, white point, gamma, etc. All those settings..and most of them I end up turning off or waaay down.

Each input retains its own custom setting - a VERY nice option allowing fine tuning of each input - I anticipate setting up my Multibridge Extreme to use both HDMI and HD component outputs to feed into the HDTV via usage of long cable runs under the house (yeah, I'm that kind of geek), so I can route from studio to living room.

One downside, though - viewing angle is CRITICAL - even standing up (from sitting on couch) creates a HUGE shift in luma (brightness) - side to side there is some variation, but if I display a flat grey screen, I can move up/down a foot and see the grey shift darker and bluer. Standing in front of the set, even 5 feet back, gives a completely off-the-map bad viewing experience, so the sweet spot to view is sitting on the couch, about 3 people wide. Hmm. Of course, two people is really optimal for Movie Palace Mode viewing. : ) I've tested extensively with a wide demographic cross section.

The HD-DVD player takes a long time to fire up, and the UI is interesting - the difference between reading about it and then actually using it is interesting - I got King Kong and Batman Returns in HD-DVD, and while King Kong follows the expected DVD main menu structure, Batman Returns just starts playing the movie until/unless you press a menu button.

Then you get a UI that pops up from the bottom WHILE THE MOVIE IS PLAYING which is pretty cool but a little distracting, it is superimposed as a graphic layer over the playing movie. Pretty slick. You can explore the menu stuff (and even get descriptions) while the movie is playing, surf for other chapters while the movie is playing, etc.

But an interesting note about how the HD-A2 HD-DVD player works - it is like a computer with an anemic graphics card, struggling to do what it is doing, barely able to do it. Fast forwarding is rough and skippy and not smooth, the UI elements slide out in course chunks, not smooth. I've heard HD-DVD players are essentially comptuers with video outputs, and if this is true, it has a slow CPU and a not-great GPU. I picture future players capable of smoother fast formwarding (mine goes in chunks, and not even time chunks of same size!), smoother UI motion, etc. Curious to know if the $1000 players do any better. I'd like to have the HD-A20 due this spring with 1080p capability, but I don't know if that'll actually play any better - is the 1080i output here just 24p with 3:2 pulldown added? How would a 1080p player work with 24p footage? 2:3:3:2 or 2:3:2:3 cadence to play back progressive frames? And will it run the UI any more smoothly?

When you pause, after a couple of minutes a Universal (the studio not generic) screensaver comes up - interesting.

TV stations - turns out my digital cable service offers HD digital cable - all I had to do was drive 10 minutes away and swap out cable boxes. I kept also traded out the old one to use in my bedroom for an extra $7 a month - not bad.

I stayed up late, watching Lost in HD then The Departed on my plain jane DVD player going into the component outputs - looked good, but nowhere near HD good. Mosquito noise is glaringly obvious at this scale.

Scaling oddnesses - there's Normal (4:3 pillarboxes), Full (16:9 full screen), Zoom (for 16:9 on a 4:3 screen) and Wide Zoom (same thing but for what, anamorphic? it squishes it vertically a bit more)

Had a few issues - audio dropouts during Lost every few minutes - turns out it is doing that to everyone. And annoyingly, changing audio volume on the remote doesn't do anything. I already had tech coming out from Time Warner cable, and he couldn't figure it out - all he did was make the cable remote change the volume on the TV itself...where there was no audio (DVI link from cable box to TV carries no audio signal, using toslink (optical) to receiver). As it is toslink I need to adjust volume on the final device audio is sent to....all this is yet another factor in the fact that all this HD related stuff is waaaaaaaay too complicated for the average consumer - if it is a pain for ME, what might it be like for someone like my Dad who can barely get a regular DVD to play? Typical consumers are completely out of their league - if it took me hours and hours of research to make an informed but still compromised decision, what's it like for normal people? I figure at LEAST 2-3 years for prices to get more affordable and interoperability to get resolved for the most part, and several more years for affordable Apple-level-of-ease to make it work well together.

My old Sony XBR 32" CRT had speaker inputs to use the TV as a center speaker - unfortunately, the new TV doesn't have that capability. Can't use HDMI downmixed as there is a delay - if both running I get an audio difference and an echo. So a center speaker is on my list. And while I've been happy with my Alesis Monitor Ones for providing base, time maybe for a subwoofer as well.

I now have to sell off some old gear to get some new toys - I'll put it up on eBay etc. and let you folks know.

Picture quality is AWESOME - I got my HD-DVD and watched the T-rex fight in King Kong and the Batmobile run in Batman Returns, and the detail is great. Black levels need to be adjusted to be right for day or night viewing.

SD content looks just so-so - the higher end XBR2 set supposedly has better SD uprezzing circuitry, but that was out of my comfort zone on price.

The compression artifacts in digital cable - on static scenes it is OK, BUT for fast moving scenes with lots of high frequency detail, MAJOR compresion artifacting, makes me think about getting that Algolith Flea HDMI device for mosquito noise and blocking reduction - but it is $1000, so never mind.

I'm definitely flip flopping on my "can't tell the difference" statements from before about DVDs on too small HDTVs seen from too far away. At roughly $2K if you shop aggressively online, this Sony KDS-60A2000 shows MILES of difference between SD and HD content. And with only 16 HD channels compared to the zillions of SD ones, my previous argument stating that most folks couldn't tell the difference....isn't quite the same anymore now that I've seen this.

The set I got for a bit over $2K was intro'd at a list price of $4500 just last summer. So I'd think it isn't unreasonable to think prices for something this size and approximate quality to cut in half again in another 6-12 months.

At that point, one's willingness to have something this large in your living room becomes the limiting factor.

It is definitely one of those things that once you see major HD, you don't want to go back. And even 1080 res stuff - I can see how I'd want it to be sharper - seeing how sharp the CG graphics are as compared to the footage - MOST of the footage shown isn't as sharp as this set.

I hooked up my laptop and ran iPhoto slideshow from some 5 megapixel digital stills - I can definitely see the advantage of higher res, even from my cheapie $300 Canon Digital Elph (a 450 model).

This bodes well for Red, Dalsa, and other greater-than-HD acquisition cameras.

Major quality glass is also a part of it.

-HDNet is woefully repetitive - clearly they need more content, and GOOD content. NOT HVX200 type stuff, either, but F900, 950, F23, Viper, Dalsa, Red One, (maybe SI-2K), with top-notch glass to really show it off. Will that work financially? I don't know.

HDNet's movie channel also runs a lot of ooooollllllld movies that have been re-transferred. While it is a delight to see a 1970s movie (McCable and Mrs. Miller) in high def, COME ON Mark Cuban, let's get some newer content on here! It is weird to see 80s hair and makeup in high def...

I'll be curious to see what the max bang/buck Red One setup, using still lenses for docs will be able to create.

In any case, over the next week or two I hope to get everything all wired up so I can readily monitor from any of my three uncompressed HD capable Macs, via HDMI (using the Multibridge Extreme) or HD component analog. Should be fun to see how it all looks!

While I could clearly see the difference between this set and the $6000-$8000 consumer HDTVs, it is still pretty good. It isn't as sharp as a a pixel-for-pixel like LCD would be, but watching the desktop from my Macbook from 10 feet away running at 1920x1080 (and it overscans, I can't see the top pulldown menus!) is comfortably legible and looks GREAT.

I'm now juggling four remotes - the HDTV, the digital cable box, the HD-DVD, and the receiver's. Usual thing to sit down with all the new manuals and cross pollinate all the control functions - they all have the capability to control multiple devices.

I find myself watching stuff I wouldn't otherwise - just watched Ant Wars and some quest for giant crocociles on DiscoveryHD. Hell, even though I ADORE Lyle Lovett, I'm wathing him on Austin City Limits in HD (rocks that it is my local PBS channel, and I know it was shot about 3 miles from my house!).

-and oh yeah, I'm a total noob on HDTV, HD cable, and HD-DVD - so be it, this is where I am. I know it has been covered elsewhere, it is just new to me as as an owner setting it all up...

Everything takes longer with HD - and I'm not talking about renders in Final Cut here - the HDTV takes a while to warm up, is dark dark dark when it first turns on. The HD-DVD takes about half a minute to get rolling, and another chunk of time (too lazy to stopwatch it, you can Google and find out how slow) to start playing from the time the HD-DVD is put in. Again if it is a computer, it is a slow one. And changing channels on HD cable is sllllllooooooooow as well - can't just click-zip through like you can with regular cable, the Guide starts to make a lot more sense and be highly useful, because it takes 2-5 seconds (varies) from final button press until the picture and sound are up. And speaking of audio delay, after pausing or chapter skipping, it takes seconds for the HD-DVD audio to "catch up" with the playing audio. Switching inputs on the HDTV (which has nice labelling capablities, so it isn't Input 6, it is Cable Box or HD-DVD or Studio Feed) is also slow and takes seconds. Switching back and forth between shows/inputs is vexingly slow.

BTW - I ended up deciding to get the HD-DVD player as an upgrade from the $230 I was expecting to spend on an good HDMI uprezzing DVD player. For an extra $170 from Amazon it does good DVD uprezzing and OH! It plays HD-DVDs too. I've said it before, I'll say it again - technology is only as relevant as it's price point. A $400 2nd gen HD-DVD player, or a $600 PS3 or $800+ Blu-ray player? As a $150 bump up from a good uprezzing DVD player, it fits into the "kinda pricey upgrade but worth it", vs a major financial commitment (as gear goes) that you think twice or thrice before committing to. A $175 upgrade to something they were already buying (almost doubling it) is in the "Ehhh....I might." category. A $370 upgrade? Gotta check with the wife/girlfriend/back account/conscience...

Speaking of the player I got, I was surprised to see it does NOT support MP3 discs! Crazy considering what all it does - the Oppo uprezzing DVD player did DVD-A and the other high def audio format, as well as a bunch more stuff. While the HD-A2 does play DVDs and DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs (kudos), I was suprised at the lack.

I've got an AppleTV on order, but at this point the only thing it'll do I like is a nice interface for my iTunes collection...which won't fit on the 40GB hard drive anyway. I was thinking of making a dedicated media Mac with an old G5 (that I rarely use, sadly) that I could leave hooked up to the HDTV full time (or optionally with a long run DVI cable), and it'd do more and cost less (you can get Front Row to work on non-Intel Macs with an available hack). In any case, I'm letting the AppleTV order stand, in part just to keep up on things. The stuff I do for you guys...

OK, enough rambly for now.

-mike

Labels: HD-DVD, HDTV, original

UPDATE - I BOUGHT ONE! SCROLL DOWN TO "BOUGHT ONE!" UPDATE FOR DETAILS

Hey all -

So It Is Time for me to buy an HDTV. Other than the studio gear, I don't have one.

Rational Boy that I am, I decided to go about this methodically.

My earlier rough thoughts had been that I'd wait for a true 1080p set to get down to about $2000 that had multiple HDMI w/HDCP ports, and good uprezzing capabilities for DVDs (if a new DVD player didn't have it). Then I started reading about 120 Hz sets and thought I'd want that feature as well. Then I read about HDMI v1.3 and thought that might be a nice feature to have as well. As for size? I hadn't thought about it too much. This starts out semi-organized and devolves into my notes to myself as I still don't have an answer yet:

More thoughts on what I want:
-bright
-contrasty
-excellent black levels
-do I really want 1080p? NO by typical viewing distance logistics, YES if I want to do critical evaluations on it
-no/minimal smear/lag/rainbow fringing
-HDMI w/HDCP
-LOTS of inputs
-HDMI v1.3?
-96 or 120 Hz?
-good SDTV performance
-good backlit remote (or a 3rd party good universal remote)
-DVI input better than VGA input for computer usage, and FULL SCREEN not pixel for pixel
-built in tuner

plasma/LCD/RPTV?

plasmas suffer in direct light and have reflections (not so worried about burn-in issues) - so out?
LCDs are good but get pricey for size/res I want - so maybe
RPTVs - DLP typically better than LCoS (SXRD/DiLA) are close but not as good for contrast
LCDs are workst contrast of the bunch

Step One: How much?

The classic limiter: budget. I've semi-arbitrarily decided $2500 is as much as I'm willing to spend - I'll still need to be buying some new media furniture for my living room, and any HDTV receiver/tuner/set-top box/Blu-ray/HD-DVD/etc. that I might want to get, which is a whole other bailiwick.

In the end, that is just as much as I wanted to spend.

Step Two: How Big?

Referring to this chart I mentioned the other week, at my viewing distance (10 or 11 feet), SMPTE & THX would recommend a screen size of about 65 to 98 inches. Uh huh, not happening. In my budget level, I'm looking at sets no larger than 46" for LCDs and 50 or maybe 55" for plasma HDTVs, or up to 62" for rear projection HDTVs (from a quick skim of B&H's website).

So that right there rules out fitting into the recommended math. A 50" set is around 4 feet wide. That's BIG, and can dominate a room.

While the viable range I can afford falls into the 37-55" range, I'm guessing I'll be centering in on a 40-46 inch set to get good contrast and image quality.

Step Three: What Resolution?

Now, interestingly, there's another chart that is highly informative. If you look at the horizontal line for 10 foot viewing distance, and cross that with the size of screen I can afford, surprise! If I were to get the biggest possible set, and it had 1280x720 panel resolution, and I my glasses/contacts corrected my vision to 20/20, and I leaned forward a bit, THEN and ONLY then should I be able in theory to see the full benefit of a 1280x720 (720p) resolution signal & image. If you look at that chart, there are some hard lines (where benefit of 480/720/1080/1440p is fully visible), and some soft transitional zones (the areas between). At a viewing distance of 10 feet, a 36 inch set lets you see all the resolution of a 480p signal (like a DVD). I presently have a 32 4:3 Sony TV set, and watching DVDs, if offers me about a 30" 16:9 area. So in theory, I'm not even ABLE to see all the clarity/benefit of my DVDs as I'm presently set up....if my TV even showed all the resolution.

If I were to get a 37" HDTV, at my viewing distance, I'd barely (if at all) be able (in theory) to see the difference between a 480p and a 720p signal.

If I get a 46-50" set, I'd be able to tell the difference between that and standard def, but I wouldn't be able to eyeball all the resolution of a 720p signal. Hmm....therefore, the typical 1368x768 panel resolution would be fully adequate for my viewing conditions, provided it is bright enough and contrasty enough. This is probably why most folks are happy with their HDTVs and standard definition DVDs - it looks damn good on their sets from their usual viewing distances. And at ten foot viewing distances, with 20/20 vision, you'd need a nearly 60" set to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p signal resolution, and a whoping 78" (that's six and a half FEET diagonally) set to see ALL the detail in a 1080p signal. And who wants to dominate their room with a 6 1/2 foot TV set?

So I'm so NOT going to sweat waiting for a 1080p set to come into my price/size range...because I'd have to get a room dominating monster to do so.

===============

I've also been idly considering getting a screen and a projector for watching movies in my bedroom - my laundry room is right behind my bedroom and I could cut a glass port into the wall to isolate projector noise, and I have a perfect spot on my wall to install a pull-down screen that would cover the windows. Fun as it would be, is this something I'd really want to do in my bedroom?

I'm considering the Sony KDS-60A2000 at the moment, some pros/cons:
-60" screen
-3xSXRD, no spinning color wheel issues
-CineMotion (aka 3:2 pulldown) worked spottily at best (uh oh)
-1080p60 yes GOOD, 1080p24 NO, BOOO!!!!!
-2 HDMI inputs (not v1.3 I'd bet)
-2 component inputs
-s-video/composite
-VGA (1366x768 max - what happened to 1920x1080????)
-some trouble with SD material, 3:2 pulldown in particular, and some detailing issues
-VGA mode did NOT fill screen from computer
-HDMI to DVI adaptor DID do 1920x1080 though, BUT overscanned significantly - no Start toolbar, for instance
-

the KDS-R60XBR2 has more inputs, but still has some SD issues - VERY important to figure out where your SD signal is coming from - I'll probably need to get a new DVD player with upconversion capability and HDMI outputs
-that given, which one? With HQV or Faroudha upscale chip, right?
-
DO THE PROCESSING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO ACTUALLY MATTER FOR ME?

what else to consider that I can afford?

-the 50" version of the cheaper Sony

--that Mitsubishi with DVI input Carlton dude recommended?

-do I really WANT a 50"+ set in my living room?

-if I go 60", that is HUGE - but is it in the "can see all res" category yet? If rear projection rather than direct pixels, won't that be soft as compared to direct pixels of an LCD?

-the quest continues - PLEASE DO share your thoughts etc. - depending on how close the screen is (wall mount or RPTV on pedestal) my viewing distance is about 9 1/2 to 11 feet.

DISCUSS!

-mike

UPDATE 3pm:

-thanks for all the feedback so far, let me clarify my viewing situation: it is in my living room, which has a LOT of windows and is NOT darkable during the day. Also, I have studio gear, this is for living room enjoyment. I already have 32" SDTV, so I'm looking to make a big improvement from that.

-some folks are saying this is a bad time to buy - with prices constantly coming down, when IS a good time? Quality and price are both improving dramatically, is it going to be like computers, in that waiting 6 months will ALWAYS net a better result? I've got the Mad Cash sitting around now, dunno if I still will months down the road

-and for the reasons to wait - how far off are they?

I could either:
-pony up serious dough and get something good that would be cheaper and as good later
-get a "hold me over" unit in the meantime and upgrade down the road
-or not buy and wait

Thoughts? I'm used to computers always improving and you buy when you need - I have no specific need at the moment, but I've been waiting quite a while already

-mike

UPDATE: BOUGHT ONE!

Sometimes, you're just ready to BUY STUFF.

After meaning to get an HDTV for, oh, a coupla years now, I spent 3 or 4 hours reading and researching yesterday. After finishing some work, I drove out to Fry's and looked at a bunch of what they had out there (I have a gift certificate from there to offset some of the cost, so I'm inclined to buy from them, "free money" and all). I took some notes, compared them to what I'd found from online reviews (cnet.com was pretty helpful, but many reviews were getting a bit long in the tooth).

Crossing cnet's recommendations with what they had out there, the Sony KDS-60A2000 started looking pretty good - with the same core imaging capabilities as the top rated and $1500 more expensive 60" XBR2 model, I was happy with it. There's some nitpicky differences in the SD performance, but since I'm going to upconvert my DVDs anyway (more on that in a minute), I'm not so concerned about that.

I took my notes back home, did some more online research to make sure I wasn't missing any models worth looking at, and to make sure the prices I was finding were reasonable enough.

Got home, more research. The Sony was holding up fairly well. ALL HDTVs have some issues...or at least all the ones under $2500 I was looking at did - there's no such thing as a Perfect HDTV in this price range.

I did end up changing my mind and deciding to get a 1080p capable unit, even though at that size and viewing distance I probably can't eyeball the difference between 1080 & 768 pixels of imagery, I told myself it was because I'd be evaluating HD signals on it (work related, ya know) that I'd be better off with the straight, pixel for pixel, 1080p res. Or I just wanted 1080p, because I'm a victim of marketing and a quality snob - I don't know which...entirely.

Other options:

The $400 stand from Sony? Man, $400 is lot of money for some metal and glass whose job is to SIT THERE. So I didn't buy it...yet. I'm going to research alternatives tomorrow. This TV is ridiculously huge, so I need a big piece of furniture to sit it on. And it will also need to house, at the very least, my receiver and new DVD player - the CD changer (never use it), the VHS (hahahahaaaaa......that's a good one, I kill me...), and the old DVD player probably won't be included in this game.

A definite issue - getting off axis up or down has a quick and DRAMATIC effect on brightness, so definitely need to have the HDTV at proper height - ideally my face at same height as center of screen when I'm sitting down (more measuring tape games to be played)

Further digging - the same stand can be found online for $250 not $400...but ground shipping starts at $80-$100...so $50 to wait a week or more...hmm...just paying for it locally and bringing it home could be way to go.

I skipped the extended warranty/coverage action, mostly based on The Simpson's episode where Homer is getting the crayon pounded into his brain further to re-dummify and he says "Extended warranty? How can I lose!" and Moe says "Almost there...just one more...." It was $300 I think for five years, and a new bulb is MSRP for $250. If there's a problem, somebody will come out to fix it. Without it, you're on your own with Sony, and of course he didn't say what their policy is.

So now the question is what DVD player?

A little research and I found a top rated upconverting DVD player that outputs 1080p not 1080i - but for only about $150 more, I could get the Toshiba HDA2 HD-DVD player and play REAL HD discs - but that unit is 1080i, not 1080p. Sigh....will it make a meaninful difference? I'm thinking not. I have hundreds of DVDs, but I don't buy anymore, I'm happy with Netflix.

So chime in - $230 Oppo DV981HD killer 1080p uprezzing DVD player, or $375 Toshiba HDA2 honest-to-goodness HD-DVD player that also upconverts DVDs to 1080i?

Consider this a polll...but remember budget is getting TIGHT...Octo-Mac Pros may be getting announced tomorrow, and I just dropped about 2 grand on this thing...

updated an hour later - digging around, 3 of 4 stores I've found list it as not available yet, and one place lists it as in stock....I sooooo don't trust "in stock" notifications online, and with a fairly new product, this smells iffy. For $150 more, I can DEFINITELY get an HDA2, and pronto (they've been shipping for weeks). While I'd like to wait for the HD-A20 (which DOES have 1080p output), it ships "Spring 2007) which could be May and I'm tired of waiting. When it is time to buy, I'm all about new-ish tech that the price has dropped some already. The $500 list of the HDA2 is actually under $400 if you dig around.

Next up - getting an HD signal - I'm on the phone waiting to hear what my options are with Time Warner Cable (already have digital cable with them)...then I gave up after holding half an hour (at 11pm at night - how busy can they be!)

-mike

Labels: HDTV, original